Tamiya 1:32 Mustang

[13aceofspades13]

hold on guys just a second

the mustang had a maximum range of 2,000 miles, with a pair of 108 gallon drop tanks on its wings, and a internal fuel range of 1,300 miles with about 269 gallons o fuel, in the two main tanks in the wings, and the one aft fuselage tank, sources to prove my findings...

http://www.soseisberg.com/content.php?pagina_id=16

http://warbirdsofww2.tripod.com/p-51.htm

http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/North%20American%20F-51D%20Mustang.asp

my website, is one of the first things that popped up, ironically beacuse nobody goes too it.
http://13thace.forumotion.com/t6-p-51-mustang-my-favorite-aircraft

http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/fighters/fighters-01.html

http://www.fantasyofflight.com/aircraftpages/p51c.htm

the mustang had a range of about 1,650 miles with the 75 gallon drop tanks, and later some time during the end or after the war they had ferry tanks that held about 165 gallons of fuel which would increase its range to about 2,500 miles, they never had drop tanks that carried 150 gallons of fuel buy my sources or buy what i understand, the more common drop tanks available are what are available in the kit, 75 gallon drop tanks and 108 gallon drop tanks.

i never said the mustang escorted bombers with bombs and rockets, in fact i think i said they never did, beacuse there primary role at that point is to escort the bombers, bombs are dead useless and now you cant have drop tanks, and rockets, well they are useless agents other aircraft due to the lack of accuracy and aircraft performance degreadence, 4 to 6 .50 caliber machine guns with muzzle velocities of 2,700fps and rates of fire of 800 rounds per minute, would rip a little fighter to peaces, and would be far more effective rockets with a droopy and unpredictable trajectory.

i am also aware that some of the bases where closer, or farther than England, or some enemy target are closer and farther, than Berlin, and i think i stated that, saying at times the target was closer than from Berlin to England. and at times thats how the mustang could easily do the ground attack role with bombs and rockets strapped it had the range... to perform roles such as air support, later in the war... bases in liberated Europe where taken over, and mustangs would also take off from them, but that was much later in the war.

and i was also aware that bombers would travel a distance before the fighters would meet them, beacuse the fighters would travel so much slower than the bombers, that it would actually decrease there range, so it was best, to meet them some time later... at point B as you stated.


my point over all however, P-51s where used frequently in the air support role, and they where equipped with bombs and rockets, and it would not be like hauling lumber with a farrari.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Mine will be Canadian...just got to find the right markings!! ;D

 

[Moon Puppy]

Mine will be Canadian...just got to find the right markings!! ;D

Beauty Eh?

;D

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

hold on guys just a second

the mustang had a maximum range of 2,000 miles, with a pair of 108 gallon drop tanks on its wings, and a internal fuel range of 1,300 miles with about 269 gallons o fuel, in the two main tanks in the wings, and the one aft fuselage tank, sources to prove my findings...

http://www.soseisberg.com/content.php?pagina_id=16

http://warbirdsofww2.tripod.com/p-51.htm

http://www.airventuremuseum.org/collection/aircraft/North%20American%20F-51D%20Mustang.asp

my website, is one of the first things that popped up, ironically beacuse nobody goes too it.
http://13thace.forumotion.com/t6-p-51-mustang-my-favorite-aircraft

http://military.discovery.com/technology/vehicles/fighters/fighters-01.html

http://www.fantasyofflight.com/aircraftpages/p51c.htm

the mustang had a range of about 1,650 miles with the 75 gallon drop tanks, and later some time during the end or after the war they had ferry tanks that held about 165 gallons of fuel which would increase its range to about 2,500 miles, they never had drop tanks that carried 150 gallons of fuel buy my sources or buy what i understand, the more common drop tanks available are what are available in the kit, 75 gallon drop tanks and 108 gallon drop tanks.

i never said the mustang escorted bombers with bombs and rockets, in fact i think i said they never did, beacuse there primary role at that point is to escort the bombers, bombs are dead useless and now you cant have drop tanks, and rockets, well they are useless agents other aircraft due to the lack of accuracy and aircraft performance degreadence, 4 to 6 .50 caliber machine guns with muzzle velocities of 2,700fps and rates of fire of 800 rounds per minute, would rip a little fighter to peaces, and would be far more effective rockets with a droopy and unpredictable trajectory.

i am also aware that some of the bases where closer, or farther than England, or some enemy target are closer and farther, than Berlin, and i think i stated that, saying at times the target was closer than from Berlin to England. and at times thats how the mustang could easily do the ground attack role with bombs and rockets strapped it had the range... to perform roles such as air support, later in the war... bases in liberated Europe where taken over, and mustangs would also take off from them, but that was much later in the war.

and i was also aware that bombers would travel a distance before the fighters would meet them, beacuse the fighters would travel so much slower than the bombers, that it would actually decrease there range, so it was best, to meet them some time later... at point B as you stated.


my point over all however, P-51s where used frequently in the air support role, and they where equipped with bombs and rockets, and it would not be like hauling lumber with a farrari.

OK, I was mistaken when I said 150gal tanks...they didn't come until after the war....

But....

Have another look at those links you posted, as it very clearly says:

Operation range with drop tanks: 1300 miles

WITH drop tanks being the operative phrase. Without tanks they could do 1000miles max, 1300miles carrying the 75gal tanks, 1650 miles carrying the 108 gallon tanks. After the war when the 150gal tanks became standard for longer flights it could do 2000+miles, but unless it was an emergency, no pilot worth his salt would let it go that far....most likely would be grounded for going into his reserves without good reason.

And early in the war before the Allies had boots on the ground in mainland Europe, they did escort them all the way from England to the target area and back. They had no choice. Once they had airbases established in Europe, they could meet up with them. Heck, even the bases in Italy (see Tuskegee Airman) would fly up out of Italy to meet the bombers coming out of England and escort them into the target area.

 

[fumblethumbs]

Thanks Moon for a peek inside the box. Although I like plane models and have more than a few in my stash, this one in 1/32 is too rich for my blood! I'll be following with interest.

 

[13aceofspades13]

ok now lets look a some more

no.. with the two main tanks full, the Mustang had a range of about 950 miles, that was with the P-51A before they introduced the aft Fuselage tank, with the Aft fuselage tank the mustang had a range of 1,300 miles as that tank added about 80 more gallons of fuel to its fuel range.

the 75 gallon drop tank the mustang had a range of 1,650 miles....

with the 108 gallon drop tank the mustang had a range of 2,000+ miles and those links clearly state that, including some books i read, and even my flight simulator facts on the Mustang.

the 165 gallon drop tank which came out after WWII, is a poof of concept the mustangs range was extended around 2,550 miles... if there was a 150 gallon drop tank, 15 gallons would not make a 500 mile difference!

you can also get roughly around 1,300 miles if you just use the 75 gallon drop tanks... instead of filling the aft tank

here is more
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p51.htm

this one states the max range with the ferry tanks 165 gallon about 2,550 miles!
http://yelvingtonaircraft.com/p51.htm

though already posted this one clearly states that with the 108 gallon drop tanks the mustangs range is 2,000 miles...
http://flattopshistorywarpolitics.yuku.com/topic/224/Was-Taking-Iwo-Jima-a-Mistake

here is another
http://www.mustangsmustangs.us/p-51/p51specs.shtml

more
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=77


i just got done doing some math

the internal fuel capacity of the two main internal fuel tanks, is 184 gallons, the internal fuel capacity is 269 gallons, now.. we do the math, that means the aft fuel tank is 85 gallons right? now... thats 269 gallons

950/184=5.2 5.2X269=1,398 my math seems to be making sense here... thats around 1,300 1,400 miles! for only internal fuel capacity! so lets doo more math

the two 108 gallon drop tanks, 108+108= 216.... 216+269=485 gallons of fuel and with the math done... 269/1,300= 4.8MPG thats miles per gallon, now... multiply that buy the total fuel capacity of 485 gallons and you get 2,344 miles, account the added drag and weight... and you get.... about 2000 miles. so not only do my facts and sources add up, but the numbers do too. do you agree?

now i do agree once again, that no pilot would really want to fly that close within its range, but that is its range, buy my research, buy my math... which i have checked more than once.

 

[spud]

oh you B************* thats sweet.
[me=spud]is jelous[/me]

 

[13aceofspades13]

oh you B************* thats sweet.
[me=spud]is jelous[/me]

i know right, i am dying for this kit... but saving my money for other things right now... DX

hay guys? does this kit come with a pilot? if so can you get a photo for me?

 

[Moon Puppy]

oh you B************* thats sweet.
[me=spud]is jelous[/me]

i know right, i am dying for this kit... but saving my money for other things right now... DX

hay guys? does this kit come with a pilot? if so can you get a photo for me?

It does, two, one standing, one strapped in.

Let's not worry about the range of the aircraft, all that was worked out some 70 years ago. Now we're just building little plastic models of them.

Thank you Spud, just wait till I do my damage then you'll be sorry.. ;D

 

[13aceofspades13]

so you get to choose huh... what if i painted both? do the pilots faces look different or the same?

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Ace............

Quote from the very first page you linked...............


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p51.htm

P-51D: Combat Range 950 miles
Operational range 1,300 miles with drop tanks and
absolute range to dry tanks of 2,080 miles.

1300 MILES WITH DROP TANKS


This was also referenced on 2-3 other pages that you referenced.

With NO TANKS, the D model Mustang had a range of 950 miles. In order to get 1300 miles it had to carry a pair of 75gal tanks. With the 108 Gal tanks it bumped the range up to 1650miles, with the 165gal tanks that came out after the war it extended the range past 2000miles.

I am not sure what is so hard to understand about this, you are saying one thing, but all the evidence you are showing says what I have been posting all along. Ok...I admit I got the size of the tanks wrong, but that makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

 

[13aceofspades13]

Ace............

Quote from the very first page you linked...............


http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p51.htm

P-51D: Combat Range 950 miles
Operational range 1,300 miles with drop tanks and
absolute range to dry tanks of 2,080 miles.

1300 MILES WITH DROP TANKS


This was also referenced on 2-3 other pages that you referenced.

With NO TANKS, the D model Mustang had a range of 950 miles. In order to get 1300 miles it had to carry a pair of 75gal tanks. With the 108 Gal tanks it bumped the range up to 1650miles, with the 165gal tanks that came out after the war it extended the range past 2000miles.

I am not sure what is so hard to understand about this, you are saying one thing, but all the evidence you are showing says what I have been posting all along. Ok...I admit I got the size of the tanks wrong, but that makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

the 950 mile is the combat Radius.. that is different than range! that only accounts for the distance traveled to get to the target, not the distance to get too the target, then get back... for example, if i where to take my mustang and attack a target 600 miles a way, the combat radious would be 600 miles, but i would also have to fly 600 miles back home, a total distance of 1,200 miles! so.. yea, your right, combat radious is around 950 miles!! now multiply that buy two, and the answer for RANGE! is 1,900miles which is close too.......... 2,000 miles, that is not its internal fuel range buy any means! the mustangs internal fuel radios is about 600 to 650 miles a range of 1,300 miles!

dude i hope you are not getting angry at me, but i know what i am saying is right, beacuse i have studied this airplane for years, its my favorite airplane, just take that into consideration, im not trying to be a know it all, or a Troll or anything, i just want to enplane.

now as for 1,300 miles with drop tanks, once again, what types of drop tanks, and under what internal fuel load condition the mustang was loaded, some mustangs did not even have the Aft fuselage tank, i believe two seaters remove the aft tank for a extra seat, sometimes pilot would not even fill them beacuse they knocked off the mustangs center of gravity and if you only needed to fly 1,300 miles then whats the point of even having that full! when the two main tanks alone will give you a range of 950 miles, and as i have stated before, with that tank removed... or not filled, and with 75 gallon drop tanks, the mustangs range is around 1,300 miles! and this is often the case, beacuse the aft tank is considered a auxiliary tank! the mustangs maximum range, is with all the internal tanks, plus with the biggest tanks they had at the time, 108 gallon drop tanks!

there are so many range figures to consider when it comes too the mustang!!

RANGES!

950 miles with just main internal tanks

1,300 miles with all internal tanks

1,300 miles roughly with main internal tanks full aft tank empty, or no aft tank, with 75 gallon drop tanks

1,650 with all internal tanks plus 75 gallon drop tanks

2,000+ miles with all internal tanks plus 108 gallon drop tanks

2,550 miles with all internal tanks plus 165 gallon drop tanks (post war)

now we either are going to agree here... or i give up trying to explane, i believe what i say is right, you believe what you say is right, so... we may just have to agree to disagree!



Back to the model please... do the pilots faces look different, or relatively the same? do they look like they could be diffren't people, or does it look like both figures are the same exact person?

 

[Fruit]

Ooooooo...

I think the discussion on the specs of the actual plane have gone astray of the main topic (?) and has caused some uh... conflicts. Like Moon Puppy said, let's not worry too much on the range (I would say not worry too much on the details there of) and get down to the building of models.

Information of the real deal is nice and interesting, but the way I'm seeing it, it looks like things are getting a bit too heated (?). Perhaps laying off on that topic before some feelings get hurt (?)



By the way, lovely kit Moon Puppy, as the others have said, can't wait to see what you do with it!

IT definitely looks to be a BEAST.

 

[Moon Puppy]

so you get to choose huh... what if i painted both? do the pilots faces look different or the same?

The sitting pilot has O2 mask on so sure, you can do both.

Fruit you're right, Hopefully I'll start cutting some sprue this weekend.

 

[spud]

how big is this kit?

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Yes Moon...sorry for going off topic, little carried away there.

 

[Moon Puppy]

You talking about the Box? didn't measure it, pretty big!



I was asked for a unused parts list, this is not complete. Many of the parts on the list are duplicates, guess they were working with the economy of the sprues and space for parts and such. But I think it's pretty safe to say, based on the parts on these sprues, there are more variants coming.

I give you the PE @ sheet.


Parts 5, 8, 11, 14 are not used. 11 and 14, to me, looks like parts of that rocket tube that would be mounted. Part a20, I know you already see it, I think that's pretty clear to be the ring for the camera port on the F6 Mustang.

And b

Part b12 is not use and I have no idea what that is.

Various designs of the rear view mirror?


my missing IFF panel and other variants of panels. From what I see, most every panel configuration is in this kit.


Alternate radio set. I think this was a later radio.


Now this is interesting. I thought his was a part for the ducting of the supercharger but it's not called for and I'm pretty sure it's not a duplicate.

Don't know what these are, H12,13,14.

And a shot of the figures per request.


Well I got some honey doos to do today. Maybe tomorrow I can join up some plastic and get started with this monster.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Yes, no doubt more variants to come....I have it on good authority that they are at least working on a B/C version of the mustang. With the unfilleted tail in the kit to do an early D, would be the same tail that was on the B/C (I think), and some other subtle differences to the kit, otherwise it is basically just the canopy.

The biggest change would be if they decided to do an A version, as the whole front nose was different on the A, as well as having the Allison engine as opposed to the Merlin.

I think the B/C is a no brainer (the B and C mustangs were identical, but they changed the designation because of where the aircraft was built, the Bs were built in Inglewood, the Cs built in Dallas), we will see if they will go to the length of molding a new nose and engine for an A model.

The first photo of the PE, the parts that aren't used (11 and 14) look like the end caps to the bazooka type rocket launchers, which obviously aren't in the kit, which would lead me to believe that maybe a Korean version would be another variant they will release. That seems to be a no brainer as well since the aircraft were pretty much the same...add in the ground pounder weapons and different markings, and good to go.

The other 2 PE parts on the 2nd picture look like the butt end of a set of traditional rocket pods, which I have never seen on a P-51, but could be entirely possible. Maybe what they are planning is a Korean and later variant. Israeli's used them quite a bit as well in '48...don't recall if they still were using them in '56, but a late version Korea to Israel version would be very interesting.

 

[13aceofspades13]

yea sorry moon, i guess i got a little carried away too, and im sorry Scott if i upset you in any way, that was not my intentions...

the pilot reminds me a lot of the 1/48 scale figures i bought for my diorama, you have to assemble him i see, not like the 1/48 scale figures for airplanes where he is already in one peace...

those 13 and 14 do look like parts too the supercharger for sure! i could be wrong,

and the kit comes with photo etch? holy cow! this kits got some serious detail!

the tires for the landing gear, are they rubber or plastic?

 

[spud]

no not box i woulda geussed thats fairly big ;D