Thinning Tamiya paint for brush painting.

[Nighthawk]

I'm sure you guys are all aware of the problem with brushing Tamiya acrylic paint and I was wondering if anyone has found a solution. I have tried using Tamiya Laquer and X20 to thin the paint but I still cannot get any kind of decent finish using a brush. There is a Tamiya thinner that includes a retarder but it seems to be very hard to find in the UK.
I have had no problems at all with airbrushing Tamiya but occasionally I need to involve a bit of brushwork and this usually means trying to mix up some Vallejo paint to match.

 

[urumomo]

https://www.scalemodeladdict.com/threads/brushing-with-tamiya-paint.13984/

There are some other threads here about this , somewhere ...

 

[the Baron]

I hand-brush Tamiya acrylics (X/XF) all the time, and I use Tamiya's acrylic thinner, X-20A. I originally used water, and isopropyl, but the paint would clump, or lift up previous coats. Some colors were worse than others, but none of them were satisfactory. Once I started using Tamiya's proprietary thinner, those problems went away. I can lay down colors in coats as thin as if they were sprayed.

I use two methods, really depending on how I feel. One is to use a little jar of the thinner as a working supply, pick up the color with the brush, whether from the underside of the lid, or direct from the jar, then dip it in the thinner, and apply it to the piece. It levels out as I apply it.

The other method is to use an impermeable palette, like a ceramic, plastic, or glass, and mix a little bit of the paint and a couple drops of the thinner, till it's consistently mixed. Then I apply it to the piece.

I don't use anything else, no retarders or anything else. But that's just my preference, because I haven't appeared to need such adjuncts.

I would not recommend using any lacquer thinner to thin for hand-brushing, because the thinner is so hot that it's liable to lift up any color coat you already laid down. However, there are Japanese painters who use lacquers to paint by hand, particularly in the Maschinen Krieger genre. They use the fact that the thinner dissolves, or reactivates, the color already on the model, to blend the colors. I just don't want or need that effect in what I paint.

That's all based on my experience, and it works for me. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

 

[Laurie]

I find Tamiya very difficult to hand brush as it goes off so quickly. A boon for airbrushing not hand brushing.

On founding the correct colours with Vallejo look up the many colour matches . Vallejo Model have a very large number of colours & you will be unlucky not to find one at least near.

Laurie

 

[Nighthawk]

Thanks for the input guys, tis probably just me not being used to acrylics or something but each time I have tried to brush Tamiya there has been an awful mess. I'll give it another try on something that doesn't really matter but to say I'm not at all confident of a decent outcome could be a bit of an understatement.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

I find Tamiya very difficult to hand brush as it goes off so quickly. A boon for airbrushing not hand brushing.

Hmmm…. I never had issues handbrushing Tamiya acrylics.

 

[Nighthawk]

Hmmm…. I never had issues handbrushing Tamiya acrylics.

Do you dilute them or use them straight out of the bottle?

 

[Pantherman]

Thanks for the input guys, tis probably just me not being used to acrylics or something but each time I have tried to brush Tamiya there has been an awful mess. I'll give it another try on something that doesn't really matter but to say I'm not at all confident of a decent outcome could be a bit of an understatement.

I'm like you, not a fan of brush painting with Tamiya but they are very good for spraying.
Pantherman

 

[Nighthawk]

I'm like you, not a fan of brush painting with Tamiya but they are very good for spraying.
Pantherman

Tamiya are perfect for spraying, its Vallejo that gives me spraying headaches and I have no problem brushing with it.

 

[the Baron]

Do you dilute them or use them straight out of the bottle?

You'll get your best, most consistent results, if you thin Tamiya acrylics. As I described above, you could either mix a little of the color and the X20 thinner, in the well of an impermeable palette, or, use a little jar of the thinner, dip your brush in the color, then in the thinner, and let it blend on the target.
While I was learning to use Tamiya paints with my airbrush, I read somewhere that they are formulated for airbrushing and are intended to be thinned. I don't know if that is true or not, but I do know that that inspired me to thin the paints for handbrushing-I already thinned them for airbrushing-and that's when I got the best results, consistently.
For me, neither water nor isopropyl worked to thin Tamiya acrylics for handbrushing. That's why I recommend using Tamiya's proprietary thinner for handbrushing.

 

[Laurie]

An interesting article.

Laurie

https://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/in...rush-painting-with-tamiya-xxf-acrylic-paints/

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Do you dilute them or use them straight out of the bottle?

Straight out of the bottle. I never thin them down for handbrushing except for airbrushing sessions.

I rarely use their brand thinner to thin for airbrushing. I mostly use lacquer thinner.

 

[Laurie]

I use Tamiya Lacquer Thinner (Retarder Type). Gives a better finish with the retarder addition.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

I use Tamiya Lacquer Thinner (Retarder Type). Gives a better finish with the retarder addition.

Any hardware store lacquer thinner works just as good. Economical too.

 

[Laurie]

For those new to the "business" of model making.

There are very well known risks in using Lacquer. Always use a nose filter & open a window.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lacquer+thinner+problems

Laurie

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Yes, especially when cleaning airbrushes using lacquer thinner. To thin for hand brushing, not so much.

 

[CY343491]

I'm sure you guys are all aware of the problem with brushing Tamiya acrylic paint and I was wondering if anyone has found a solution. I have tried using Tamiya Laquer and X20 to thin the paint but I still cannot get any kind of decent finish using a brush. There is a Tamiya thinner that includes a retarder but it seems to be very hard to find in the UK.
I have had no problems at all with airbrushing Tamiya but occasionally I need to involve a bit of brushwork and this usually means trying to mix up some Vallejo paint to match.

I don't thin for small sections, i use airbrush for large sections cause nothing gives better resuls than airbrush for large areas.

 

[Laurie]

I don't thin for small sections, i use airbrush for large sections cause nothing gives better results than airbrush for large areas.

Agree CY. Any way thinning for hand painting especially Tamiya. Drys to quickly with out thinning let alone making it worse by thinning.

Just painting 1/48 soldiers with Vallejo Air straight from the bottles. Nice smooth finish with depth.
Tamiya does not have that depth for hand painting.

Laurie

 

[stevethefish]

Tamiya makes a Paint Retrder product. No thinner, just retarder. I use this when I have to hand-paint Tamiya. Mr. Hobby Aqueous acrylic paints are far better for hand-painting. For some reason, my current bottle of Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black is horrendous for hand-brushing for some reason. In fact, I am not very fond of Tamiya's acrylic paints and do not use them much. Tamiya lacquer paints (their LP series) are nice as are their enamels. But Tamiya's color palette is rather limited when compared to Mr. Color/Mr. Hobby paints. Tamiya paints are only good for Tamiya model subjects, for the most part. I don't use them a whole lot.

 

[Laurie]

Tamiya makes a Paint Retrder product. No thinner, just retarder. I use this when I have to hand-paint Tamiya. Mr. Hobby Aqueous acrylic paints are far better for hand-painting. For some reason, my current bottle of Tamiya XF-1 Flat Black is horrendous for hand-brushing for some reason. In fact, I am not very fond of Tamiya's acrylic paints and do not use them much. Tamiya lacquer paints (their LP series) are nice as are their enamels. But Tamiya's color palette is rather limited when compared to Mr. Color/Mr. Hobby paints. Tamiya paints are only good for Tamiya model subjects, for the most part. I don't use them a whole lot.

I just love Tamiya but only for airbrushing. Dries quickly & gives a superb finish.

Also their X range which is glossy is very good.

Not been stuck with color. Dead easy to make you own concoction. Plus there is somewhere a cheeky little thing which will tell you which colours to use for mixing to standard colours.

Lifecolour do the best range of colours. But it is not up to Tamiya in performance.

Laurie

 

[stevethefish]

I just love Tamiya but only for airbrushing. Dries quickly & gives a superb finish.

Also their X range which is glossy is very good.

You think so? My problem with Tamiya's clear acrylics is that they never fully harden. You can put masking tape down on their XF paints with no problems usually (although I belive it's their "Sky Blue" that always leaves masking tape patterns). Their gloss paints are disappointing. Hold a part for too long and your fingerprint will cook into the surface. Masking will just plain ruin the glossy surface. Car models typically demand a high-gloss finish. A few years ago I built an AMT Oldsmobile and made the choice to use Tamiya acrylics for the paint job. That caused a lot of headaches and I had to keep re-polishing the body. I'll never use Tamiya gloss acrylics for something like that ever again. OTOH, Mr. Hobby Aqueous, which was re-formulated a few years ago, dries very sturdily and is not affected by masking tape, fingerprints, etc.

 

[Laurie]

You think so? My problem with Tamiya's clear acrylics is that they never fully harden. You can put masking tape down on their XF paints with no problems usually (although I belive it's their "Sky Blue" that always leaves masking tape patterns). Their gloss paints are disappointing. Hold a part for too long and your fingerprint will cook into the surface. Masking will just plain ruin the glossy surface. Car models typically demand a high-gloss finish. A few years ago I built an AMT Oldsmobile and made the choice to use Tamiya acrylics for the paint job. That caused a lot of headaches and I had to keep re-polishing the body. I'll never use Tamiya gloss acrylics for something like that ever again. OTOH, Mr. Hobby Aqueous, which was re-formulated a few years ago, dries very sturdily and is not affected by masking tape, fingerprints, etc.

Wow where do you get your Tamiya XF from ?
I live in Jersey British Isles. Our average RH is 88 which is one of the highest in the world.
Summer 20 to 24 degrees. Winter around 14/15.

The majority of those I know in the model world only use Tamiya.

Did you thin approx 20% when using Tamiya. What primer ?

Tried many many similar formulae paints & found Tamiya to be the hardest. Spray morning. Wet & dry, if necessary evening including masking.

Never had a mask strip.

Not had the problems you have had with their X range

But there you go "horses for courses".

Laurie

 

[stevethefish]

I live in Japan, so I have easy access to these paints. (Only specialty shops stock foreign paints like Vallejo and Citadel.) In fact, from here at work I can walk 4 minutes to reach a hobby shop that sells Tamiya paints. I don't use ratios when mixing as I simply eyeball the paints. I usually thin Tamiya acrylics with Tamiya lacquer thinner. The masking tape doesn't strip the Tamiya gloss paint, but it ruins the finish. I mostly use Mr. Color lacquers since they dry fast and hard. I have both Tamiya acrylic and Mr. Hobby acrylic paints and I find that Mr. Hobby works nicer. In my experience, Tamiya XF paints are alright, but if you've never used Mr. Hobby Aqueous then you're really missing out. You can't scratch it off with a fingernail like you can with Tamiya. You can even put gum tape on it and lift it off and it won't disturb a gloss Aqueous finish.

 

[Laurie]

I live in Japan, so I have easy access to these paints. (Only specialty shops stock foreign paints like Vallejo and Citadel.) In fact, from here at work I can walk 4 minutes to reach a hobby shop that sells Tamiya paints. I don't use ratios when mixing as I simply eyeball the paints. I usually thin Tamiya acrylics with Tamiya lacquer thinner. The masking tape doesn't strip the Tamiya gloss paint, but it ruins the finish. I mostly use Mr. Color lacquers since they dry fast and hard. I have both Tamiya acrylic and Mr. Hobby acrylic paints and I find that Mr. Hobby works nicer. In my experience, Tamiya XF paints are alright, but if you've never used Mr. Hobby Aqueous then you're really missing out. You can't scratch it off with a fingernail like you can with Tamiya. You can even put gum tape on it and lift it off and it won't disturb a gloss Aqueous finish.

Well I have 7 bottles of Mr Hobby aqueous.

They lurk in the dust on the top shelf of my paint bar.
Been there a long time so can only think I was not impressed.

Laurie

 

[Laurie]

Well I have 7 bottles of Mr Hobby aqueous.

They lurk in the dust on the top shelf of my paint bar.
Been there a long time so can only think I was not impressed.

Laurie

Next spray session I will experiment with both.

Then I can give all my "inexpert" opinion.

Laurie

 

[GCB]

I use Tamiya and Mr Color for airbrush, however for hand brush, I did not find yet a good paint (lack of skills maybe)... what do you all use?

 

[Pantherman]

I use Tamiya and Mr Color for airbrush, however for hand brush, I did not find yet a good paint (lack of skills maybe)... what do you all use?

I use tamiya for airbrushing mostly like you but only vallejo for hand brushing, found it to be the best so far for laying down several layers especially on figures. Pantherman

 

[GCB]

Thanks Pantherman.
Normal acrylic Vallejo or the XPress colors?

 

[Pantherman]

Thanks Pantherman.
Normal acrylic Vallejo or the XPress colors?

I just use normal but usually water it down at least 50%. Sometimes use vallejo air if the colour is better but just thin that down 25% water. Pantherman

 

[the Baron]

I use Tamiya and Mr Color for airbrush, however for hand brush, I did not find yet a good paint (lack of skills maybe)... what do you all use?

For hand-brushing, I use Tamiya acrylics, but also water-based acrylics Andrea, Vallejo Model Color, Lifecolor, craft-store brands Folk Art, Apple Barrel and Americana, and Testor and Model Master enamels. The enamels I thin as necessary with mineral spirits