Returning to Modeling After 50+ Years - Need Advice...

[blakeh1]

Yeah that set looks like a pretty good deal

nice size paint cup, dual action, pressure regulator/moisture trap and even a set of pipe cleaners thrown in

as a later expansion if you start getting the desire to go to the next level would be some different nozzle sizes for finer detail line work, but that is not really needed

 

[blakeh1]

I'd also scroll through some reviews.

Have to be careful though. Some negative reviews are just frustrated people who have had issues understanding how to get an airbrush to work and all the factors involved like paint thinning etc... but blame it on the equipment
Likewise a lot of the 5 star reviews are just garbage as far as useful comments beyond "works great" or are "bought"

I find the middle of the road 5 star reviews, like those with a 2, 3 and 4 are more telling, especially if the comments are more than "this sucks"

Most importantly, look for patterns in those 2, 3 and 4 star review comments. If there are a lot that mention the same problems or issues from multiple reviewers those are the ones to pay attention to, or on the flipside, they mention the same perk etc...

For example, if most comments in reviews mention "the compresser is pretty loud" that might be something to consider if you live in an apartment and will be painting late at night

 

[wjbrandel]

Late to the party as always, but I use a GS23 Masters airbrush from amazon, bought it for $18 usd. I have used it for almost 5 years now, and I am getting a rebuild kit to get it working again (I abused it and it quit working.) I already had an air compressor.

 

[pengbuzz]

You do not want to inhale any paint or its solvents, that includes "water based" acrylics. A spray booth is a very good idea regardless of the paint or other chemicals you may use. Toxicity is a difficult subject, even if you have the technical background to understand the chemistry and the biology. And here's the killer: Any material not proven to be toxic beyond the tiniest amount of doubt can be sold as "non-toxic." Toxicity research was twenty years behind when I left material science over 25 years ago. That situation has gotten worse since then.

For example, "water based" acrylic paints are generally much less toxic than "solvent based" paints. That does not mean they are "safe" to inhale, get on your skin, or in your eyes.

Pets like dogs, cats, and birds are far more susceptible to toxic substances, and some things that cause us little harm can be deadly to them, and in much smaller quantities.

"Safe" does not exist in the real world. Only "more safe" and "less safe" have any real meaning.

"Adequate ventilation" is defined as a well-functioning spray booth, or outside. Outside is often not practical in terms of scale models.

Instructions and considerations for spray booths can be found online. If you are exclusively using non-flammable materials for building and painting, one can even be made of wood.

So to answer your question, what is best is to invest in a good spray booth, bought or home-built. I use acrylic paints exclusively, mostly Vallejo, some Tamiya. For Vallejo, their proprietary thinner and cleaner work very well. For Tamiya X and XF series paints, 90% isopropyl alcohol serves both functions.

I'm also a fan of GREX airbrushes: excellent performance and easier to clean than any other I've seen or tried. Thayer & Chandler are also good, and of course there are cadillacs like Iwata. Be advised that learning to airbrush is 75% science and 50% art. Just do the math. Buy a decent air brush, not a cheap one from Amazonk.That will save a lot of frustration.

That reminds me: I found this for a DIY spray booth and filter online:

https://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/pa_booth.htm

Don't know if it would help anyone here out, but since the materials are simple (and relatively cheap!), I figured it couldn't hurt to suggest it!

 

[AKRoast]

Hello all. I'm 66, retired and looking to get back into building models. Last did this sort of thing when I was 14 or so. Back then it was all cars, now it's going to be space and sci-fi stuff.

My question has to do with painting. Back then it was either tiny bottles and small paintbrushes or small spray cans. Results were mixed. Now of course I am aware of Airbrushes and from what I understand they are much better both in terms of the quality of the paint job that can be achieved as well as being more economical from a paint standpoint. I've got zero experience with them and so I don't want to sink too much money into one (yet) until I know I'm up to the task. So, what would you recommend as a good starter model (meaning airbrush model)?

Also, I'm trying to set up a section in my basement to have as my model shop. Does airbrush painting require the same amount of ventilation as it was when using the old spray cans?

Thanks in advance.

I went thru similar start up in Nov last year and having more disposable income now than forty five years ago I bought a bunch of stuff. Some I realize now I may never use. I also went with Vallejo paints and realized did not like them and tossed a bunch. Now I am all in with Tamiya paints for air brushing. I am no expert air brusher but getting better. I first got a Paache Talon TG-3. I think $120. I would say this is mid range. Dual action. It has multiple needle sizes. I was not happy with it. Harder to find parts and clogged with tip-dry easily. But that may have been the Vallejo paints though because that is big issue with them. The trigger also kept sticking. Tossed it. Next tried cheapo mastercraft ones, like $50 each. One was side feed, crap, one trigger type, crap. Finally bought both an Iwata Eclipse CR (.5mm) and CR3 (.3mm). Both were $120 I believe. Have been very happy with them.

 

[AKRoast]

Late to the party as always, but I use a GS23 Masters airbrush from amazon, bought it for $18 usd. I have used it for almost 5 years now, and I am getting a rebuild kit to get it working again (I abused it and it quit working.) I already had an air compressor.

A new user will only get frustrated by a cheapo air brush in my personal experience. Go mid range from start. Don't think a model maker ever needs a $700 high end air brush, but users of them may swear by them, just like some people who use cheap Amazon brands. Although cheap for how long, almost all are made in China.

 

[Littlemarten]

That reminds me: I found this for a DIY spray booth and filter online:

https://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/pa_booth.htm

Don't know if it would help anyone here out, but since the materials are simple (and relatively cheap!), I figured it couldn't hurt to suggest it!

The only problem I see with that is the motor. If you are using any flammable solvent, it needs to be an "explosion proof" motor. It also has to have the capability of exhausting air at a sufficient rate, usually expressed in cubic feet per minute.

 

[Littlemarten]

That reminds me: I found this for a DIY spray booth and filter online:

https://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/pa_booth.htm

Don't know if it would help anyone here out, but since the materials are simple (and relatively cheap!), I figured it couldn't hurt to suggest it!

The only possible problem I see with this is that it must be an "explosion proof" motor if any flammable solvent is to be used. The blower must also have a sufficient cubic feet per minute rating.

 

[pengbuzz]

The only problem I see with that is the motor. If you are using any flammable solvent, it needs to be an "explosion proof" motor. It also has to have the capability of exhausting air at a sufficient rate, usually expressed in cubic feet per minute.

Yeah; since I plan on doing this one in the near future, that's exactly what I plan looking into. I don't want to build a BBQ grill by mistake!

 

[MJY65]

No idea what your budget allows, but I've been very happy with my Pace Peacekeeper booth. You have an out of the box set up with a solvent safe fan, lighting, filter holder for 1" furnace filters, aux power outlets and a 4" exhaust fitting for exterior venting. The one I have came with a 265CFM blower, so theoretically changes its air about every 2 seconds. I'm sure inefficiencies in duct resistance, etc reduce that, but even if it is changing half that often, it's pretty dang good.

https://www.pacepaintbooth.com/36-inch-deluxe/

 

[Littlemarten]

No idea what your budget allows, but I've been very happy with my Pace Peacekeeper booth. You have an out of the box set up with a solvent safe fan, lighting, filter holder for 1" furnace filters, aux power outlets and a 4" exhaust fitting for exterior venting. The one I have came with a 265CFM blower, so theoretically changes its air about every 2 seconds. I'm sure inefficiencies in duct resistance, etc reduce that, but even if it is changing half that often, it's pretty dang good.

https://www.pacepaintbooth.com/36-inch-deluxe/

Sounds like you bought big one (36 inch). Because of space considerations, I needed one to fit in the window, which meant the 24 inch "Super-Mini". I had to do a lot of "re-engineering" for that installation, and I was very unhappy with the lighting in that particular model. Those things aside, I've been very happy with its performance. I did a lot of research on what was available, and this brand seemed the most practical, but they are rather pricey. On the up side, they use readily available furnace filters. Filters can become a big expense if the booth requires OEM. It's a big investment, but it's worth it for the sake of your lungs, liver, and kidneys, and your heirs will inherit it.

"Portable" booths are much smaller, and not all vent outside. Many require specific filters. Unless you are doing 1/72 and smaller, I don't recommend any of them, even though they are much cheaper. That said, it might pay you to shop around.

I've also seen ones that don't vent outside. I consider them unsafe, period.

 

[Dan the Modeler]

There has been a lot of great information shared here. I can only add that you may want to consider a single action airbrush to start. Dual action require a bit more finesse vs a single action, and has a stepper learning curve, being that you are controlling the amount of air and paint flow. Also to consider is a siphon feed vs gravity feed. Both have their place, as well as paint capacity of both. It's best to do some research and see what best fits your uses and situation. If in doubt, always ask away here, plenty of experience to go around that can help you fine tune the information to suit your needs. HTH

 

[Albireo]

Well, thanks to all who've replied. I think it wise to start out with a simple model kit and do the painting the old-fashion way, brushes, small spray cans and do careful masking. The investment in time, setup, and the learning curve for using an airbrush is not what I want to do now, not yet at least. That day may come.

 

[Dan the Modeler]

Well, thanks to all who've replied. I think it wise to start out with a simple model kit and do the painting the old-fashion way, brushes, small spray cans and do careful masking. The investment in time, setup, and the learning curve for using an airbrush is not what I want to do now, not yet at least. That day may come.

A solid plan of action. In the meantime, take your time and research airbrushing. When you're ready to pull the trigger, you'll be well informed and ready to enjoy the experience.

 

[Edbert]

Hi, so water based is the opposite of solvent based paints correct? And they would need much less ventilation then?

I came back to the hobby last year after about 25 years and was blown away by the myriad of paints/glues and chemistry "stuff" in general. Back in the day there were enamels (Testors/Humbrol) and acrylics (Tamiya was the only one I knew of). Of course there were lacquers then too, but my LHS didn't really carry many of them. I stayed away from acrylics even though they were non-toxic and low odor because of what I knew about painting on canvas, acrylics were for kids and starters, Grumbacher oils were for those who knew what they were doing, LOL.

Anyway, last year I found out that some (not all) acrylics (Tamiya) are water based, but you can also use isopropyl alcohol as thinner and cleanup. But there are other acrylics that are not water based at all. I'll just come right out and say, I do not understand this at all, but I've moved on and do not want or need to.

I still have several bottles of Testors "Model Masters" but the entire line was cancelled after some asshat bought Testors and killed their greatest product. So I invested pretty heavily in Tamiya bottles, both the X and the XF series.

There may well be better products out there now, I suspect there are 50+ paint manufacturers today, the learning curve is steep unless you are a chemist, but I think you can choose among many brands/types and be in a good place.

You will probably want to have two entirely different types of paint if you are into aircraft and armor, that allows you to paint one color on top of another without the second color molesting the first.

 

[Littlemarten]

Hi, so water based is the opposite of solvent based paints correct? And they would need much less ventilation then?

No. "Water based" means the primary solvent in the paint is either water, or something compatible with water. It is possible to have other solvents in the solvent blend, and they may or may not be toxic. There are a LOT of things that go into a modern paint, and you want none of them in your body. There is no paint that you want to smell or inhale in any quantity. While there are still a lot of people who will tell you otherwise, adequate ventilation is always necessary. The difficulty is in defining "adequate." I've given my definition.

To start out, consider one of the smaller commercial booths—just don't decide to build a 1/32 B-52. As long as it vents outside, and the model fits inside the booth, you are good to go. If I recall correctly, some of those are under $100.

The main expense of a home-built spray booth is the fan/motor combination. My first spray booth, forty-odd years ago, was made from scrap plywood and lumber, and a scavenged explosion proof fan. Total cost at the time was under $20. Used acrylics only.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. If you only do brush painting, a fan in the window might be enough. But if you are airbrushing or using an aerosol can, you need better than that. If you can smell it, you shouldn't be.

 

[MJY65]

There are a LOT of things that go into a modern paint, and you want none of them in your body. There is no paint that you want to smell or inhale in any quantity. While there are still a lot of people who will tell you otherwise, adequate ventilation is always necessary. The difficulty is in defining "adequate." I've given my definition.

As I noted, I'm a big proponent of well constructed exterior vented booths, but let's not scare the guy off of the hobby. Unless you are drinking it, I can't imagine brush painting with Vallejo presenting any credible hazard that would manifest itself in the OP's lifetime.

 

[Littlemarten]

As I noted, I'm a big proponent of well constructed exterior vented booths, but let's not scare the guy off of the hobby. Unless you are drinking it, I can't imagine brush painting with Vallejo presenting any credible hazard that would manifest itself in the OP's lifetime.

I wasn't speaking about Vallejo in particular, which I consider one of the safer products I've seen, especially for brush work. However, I wanted to be more general, being all too aware of human forgetfulness. I myself have forgotten to turn the blower on when opening a bottle of toluene, xylene, methylene chloride, or other noxious solvent because I'm concentrating on what I'm building. If someone as cautious and paranoid as I am can do that, anyone can. I was raised in the era of "Oh, that stuff won't hurt ya" stupidity, and have paid the price. "There is no zealot like a convert."

So I apologize to pengbuzz if I came on too strong and scared him.

 

[pengbuzz]

I wasn't speaking about Vallejo in particular, which I consider one of the safer products I've seen, especially for brush work. However, I wanted to be more general, being all too aware of human forgetfulness. I myself have forgotten to turn the blower on when opening a bottle of toluene, xylene, methylene chloride, or other noxious solvent because I'm concentrating on what I'm building. If someone as cautious and paranoid as I am can do that, anyone can. I was raised in the era of "Oh, that stuff won't hurt ya" stupidity, and have paid the price. "There is no zealot like a convert."

So I apologize to pengbuzz if I came on too strong and scared him.

It's all good, Littlemarten :thumb: It's always a good idea to review safety in using paints, glues, solvents and chemicals in our hobby. I think we can at points get too comfortable and take things for granted. While we may not immediately see the results of such, sooner or later they do pop up.