Question for 2012 contest

That is all great about Advanced modelers in one class, and Intermediate in another.....but who is going to make that distinction??

Either way you slice it you are bound to ruffle some feathers by putting someone in the wrong place and end up alienating a few people. Negative publicity spreads alot faster and farther than positive publicity. There is a slippery slope if I have ever seen one.
 
Eastrock - There wasn't ship category last year because if I'm not mistaken there were no entries but it doesn’t meant that there won't be any this year.
 
hey Biskup, its only a suggestion even though I'm not ship builder... ships are really hard to judge.
 
I am not sure that I totaly understand the issue here so, please forgive me if I missubderstanding anything.
It soulds to me like some folks are not comfortable with competing with a high level of skilled modelers. I will agree that it can be intimidating, however, if we were not facing stiff competition, any victories would be hollow right?
Use a sport for an example. You dont find the rookie class of athletes in any given sport complaining because the guys on the other team are to good!! That is the entire point! That is the very reason that a rookie athlete will push harder & rise up to the occasion. They push hard and over the course of time, they will develope into the consumate proffesional. It is the same with modeling. You guys will have to pardone my analogy....& poor spelling.
The participation of all skill levels is critical. Also, we are EXTREMELY fortunate that SCALE MODE ADDICT has the interest & participation of skilled modelers. This keeps the competetion interesting and sets the bar high. When the highly skilled guys are entering pieces into a contest, it should make all the other participants bring their "A" game. This type of healthy competition is what pushes modelers of a lower skill level to push their limits and excel & grow as a modeler. If I was to enter a contest, I would hope the very best modelers in the world were participating! It is fun to run with the big dogs & it gives us the oportunity to learn from those who know. Also, if you win.....you know that your model was judged against the very best & your victory is a compliment of the highest order....not a "thanks for showing up" kinda victory. I hope you will agree, we need to strive to raise the bar much higher.....not deliberately lower it. If we dont win the contest against the highly skilled guys this year, we will see their work and know what it will take to compete next year....this is were we learn & grow as modelers. We owe a "Thank You" to the winners of these contests, as they serve as pace car for us, showing us what the "A" game looks like, and show us what we need to learn in order to be legitimate competition against the skilled modelers of the world.
 
+1 to you colllin

I'm willing to go up against spud and TRM considering one their hand is tied on the back ;D
 
Elm City Hobbies said:
That is all great about Advanced modelers in one class, and Intermediate in another.....but who is going to make that distinction??

Either way you slice it you are bound to ruffle some feathers by putting someone in the wrong place and end up alienating a few people. Negative publicity spreads alot faster and farther than positive publicity. There is a slippery slope if I have ever seen one.


Well, I think it would be up to the Admin to set the classes. Perhaps going by the number of models an entrant has under their belt. Let's say 3 classes. Beginner-under 50 models, intermediate-50 to 200 models and expert 200+ models. These numbers are just examples. The entrant would determine their class by submitting the number of models they have built in their lifetime. Yes, the honour system enters into the process.


Would attempting to level the playing field be seen as a negative?



collin26 said:
I am not sure that I totaly understand the issue here so, please forgive me if I missubderstanding anything.
It soulds to me like some folks are not comfortable with competing with a high level of skilled modelers. I will agree that it can be intimidating, however, if we were not facing stiff competition, any victories would be hollow right?
Use a sport for an example. You dont find the rookie class of athletes in any given sport complaining because the guys on the other team are to good!! That is the entire point! That is the very reason that a rookie athlete will push harder & rise up to the occasion. They push hard and over the course of time, they will develope into the consumate proffesional. It is the same with modeling. You guys will have to pardone my analogy....& poor spelling.
The participation of all skill levels is critical. Also, we are EXTREMELY fortunate that SCALE MODE ADDICT has the interest & participation of skilled modelers. This keeps the competetion interesting and sets the bar high. When the highly skilled guys are entering pieces into a contest, it should make all the other participants bring their "A" game. This type of healthy competition is what pushes modelers of a lower skill level to push their limits and excel & grow as a modeler. If I was to enter a contest, I would hope the very best modelers in the world were participating! It is fun to run with the big dogs & it gives us the oportunity to learn from those who know. Also, if you win.....you know that your model was judged against the very best & your victory is a compliment of the highest order....not a "thanks for showing up" kinda victory. I hope you will agree, we need to strive to raise the bar much higher.....not deliberately lower it. If we dont win the contest against the highly skilled guys this year, we will see their work and know what it will take to compete next year....this is were we learn & grow as modelers. We owe a "Thank You" to the winners of these contests, as they serve as pace car for us, showing us what the "A" game looks like, and show us what we need to learn in order to be legitimate competition against the skilled modelers of the world.

Not really any issues here Iain. Just a friendly debate/discussion! I do see a major flaw in your sports analogy. I mean, the beer league players don't run with the NHL'ers. The NCAA'ers don't run with the NFL'ers. See where I'm going? There are many, many different classes for people to compete against others of equal (or close to equal) skill and ability levels. Those in the "lower" classes still look up to and admire their idols in the "upper" classes! How many kids or teens said to themselves "I'm gonna be like Wayne Gretzky" while playing city league hockey? How many high school kids said "I'm gonna be like Micheal Jordan" while playing high scool ball? The incentive is still there to improve and emulate the greats. Like I said in an earlier post on the topic..."I'm ecstatic that we have a handful of members here at SMA that are quite literally, world class modellers! It's been nothing but beneficial to the site and personally, I've learned a ton from these Guys! Extremely valuable to have the examples and resources some guys contribute...No doubt about it!"
I guess what I'm trying to say is that a level (or more level) playing field doesn't have to segragate or alienate anyone. Everyone concerned would still have full access to each others build to follow and admire. The only separation would come at evaluation time.
 
Elm City Hobbies said:
That is all great about Advanced modelers in one class, and Intermediate in another.....but who is going to make that distinction??

Either way you slice it you are bound to ruffle some feathers by putting someone in the wrong place and end up alienating a few people. Negative publicity spreads alot faster and farther than positive publicity. There is a slippery slope if I have ever seen one.

Scott M. I am pretty sure no one "here" is saying that the ( SMA staffers ) would have to decide for us ! You guys already have too much on your hands.... with Moderating the boards...and maybe other duties that we aren't privy to ? So you have to let some of those responsibilities to the participant !

I think it would be reasonable to assume that We could go about it just like in a Normal Model show...? The Modelers would decides where they "feel" Their "entry" should fit ! and be judged accordingly !

Just like you do in Real life at your AMPS shows ! The Main factors that impairs some great looking models to get up in the rankings are the PICTURES submitted by the contestants... maybe some mandatory criteria could be applied ? like "White" background ONLY! Which seems to become the norm around here lately !!! It makes for great looking pictures BTW !!! no complains here ! or No Photoshop (editing) allowed or special effects... and other stuff like that... Like the Build Log that was mentioned earlier.... to help leveling the plane, or give the (impression) so that everyone feels they have an equal chance at placing...!

of course... the show will go on... either with or without any changes.... it doesn't hurt to talk about it either ! in the end, we all want a Great Contest ! and maybe lesser efforts from the staff !

Take care and Looking forward to this year Contest !

Norm.
 
Eastrock said:
+1 to you colllin

I'm willing to go up against spud and TRM considering one their hand is tied on the back ;D

LOL im sure you will do just fine or even better :) altough at a slower pace :D
 
Agree with you Norm,

While most of us posted WIP treads some are none... and just to make a surprise.

but if the mandatory WIP impose by the admins... then the Open Category should be replace to another category to be fair with others.

@Spud
I still have 2 months to practice... time to get Rambo mode ;D
 
hehe, Redbull time.

if there is to be a split category we should concider one for the younger members, with mabe lifting the entrence fee upon those few, who may not have access to a paypal account,

Just a taught. unless of course they want to go full on into it :)
 
Hopefully all this talk doesn't cause Scott Girvan any stress. He has done a great job with the site and putting on a great contest. I think if the contest were to stay as is we would all be fine with that, right guys? I wouldn't want Scott to feel that any of the members here didn't appreciate what he does.
 
noname said:
Hopefully all this talk doesn't cause Scott Girvan any stress. He has done a great job with the site and putting on a great contest. I think if the contest were to stay as is we would all be fine with that, right guys? I wouldn't want Scott to feel that any of the members here didn't appreciate what he does.

you know i totaly agree with you, doing this is not easy by any means, So why dont we just let Scott and the boys work out the Rules of what is going to happen, After all its there Compition its there idea and we should be glad we can take part in it,
 
spud said:
noname said:
Hopefully all this talk doesn't cause Scott Girvan any stress. He has done a great job with the site and putting on a great contest. I think if the contest were to stay as is we would all be fine with that, right guys? I wouldn't want Scott to feel that any of the members here didn't appreciate what he does.

you know i totaly agree with you, doing this is not easy by any means, So why dont we just let Scott and the boys work out the Rules of what is going to happen, After all its there Compition its there idea and we should be glad we can take part in it,



I don't know Guys. I think Scott G might appreciate the fact that the membership is having a frank, civilized discussion on ways to possibly improve SMA. Scott has alway seemed to be receptive to any ideas that would benefit the forum. I agree that the forum and contest are great! At the same time, there is always room for improvement. There is nothing wrong with progress. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that Scott would be proud of the way folks are conducting themselves on this "touchy" subject!
 
Where would we be today without Improvments? LOL

288acf22.jpg


Sometimes change can be for the better! Or worst! Remains to be seen!
 
collin26 said:
I am not sure that I totaly understand the issue here so, please forgive me if I missubderstanding anything.
It soulds to me like some folks are not comfortable with competing with a high level of skilled modelers. I will agree that it can be intimidating, however, if we were not facing stiff competition, any victories would be hollow right?
Use a sport for an example. You dont find the rookie class of athletes in any given sport complaining because the guys on the other team are to good!! That is the entire point! That is the very reason that a rookie athlete will push harder & rise up to the occasion. They push hard and over the course of time, they will develope into the consumate proffesional. It is the same with modeling. You guys will have to pardone my analogy....& poor spelling.
The participation of all skill levels is critical. Also, we are EXTREMELY fortunate that SCALE MODE ADDICT has the interest & participation of skilled modelers. This keeps the competetion interesting and sets the bar high. When the highly skilled guys are entering pieces into a contest, it should make all the other participants bring their "A" game. This type of healthy competition is what pushes modelers of a lower skill level to push their limits and excel & grow as a modeler. If I was to enter a contest, I would hope the very best modelers in the world were participating! It is fun to run with the big dogs & it gives us the oportunity to learn from those who know. Also, if you win.....you know that your model was judged against the very best & your victory is a compliment of the highest order....not a "thanks for showing up" kinda victory. I hope you will agree, we need to strive to raise the bar much higher.....not deliberately lower it. If we dont win the contest against the highly skilled guys this year, we will see their work and know what it will take to compete next year....this is were we learn & grow as modelers. We owe a "Thank You" to the winners of these contests, as they serve as pace car for us, showing us what the "A" game looks like, and show us what we need to learn in order to be legitimate competition against the skilled modelers of the world.

Don’t get me wrong, I find a lot of inspiration in seeing what you guys can do.

But as funblethump says, sport is usually divided into divisions for a very good reason. You don’t want a NFL team to play against a high school team, right?

This is also a problem which I’ve debated at length in my local wargames club. Do you thrash the noob to teach him the level of opposition he’ll encounter, or do you go easy on him for a while, letting him get used to the basic rules before hitting him with everything you’ve got?

I would actually like to hear how you veterans feel about it. Is it really interesting participating in a contest where most contestants are no threat to you? What do you get out of it? How does it help you grow as a modeller?

To be very blunt, I’m really hesitant about paying to enter a contest where I know, before even having opened the box, that I have very little, and most likely no, chance of getting any of the ‘loot’. Why should I? I could just as easily build the model for myself, at my own pace, rather than working under a deadline and against people whose skills are way out of my league.

spud said:
noname said:
Hopefully all this talk doesn't cause Scott Girvan any stress. He has done a great job with the site and putting on a great contest. I think if the contest were to stay as is we would all be fine with that, right guys? I wouldn't want Scott to feel that any of the members here didn't appreciate what he does.

you know i totaly agree with you, doing this is not easy by any means, So why dont we just let Scott and the boys work out the Rules of what is going to happen, After all its there Compition its there idea and we should be glad we can take part in it,

I certainly don’t want Scott to feel that I’m ungrateful for all the hard work he’s done. But why shouldn’t I come with suggestions and input? Perhaps Scott wasn’t even aware that some of us were feeling like this. If so, then we ought to let him know so he can take this into consideration when planning future contests.

I honestly don’t think that any of us are doing this to critique Scott and the competition. Rather, we’re simply debating how we might make it even better...
 
we are paying the entrance fee not to win, but to support the website. it's only 5 usd. I pay more at live contests, where I have almost zero chance to win anything.
 
f2k said:
To be very blunt, I’m really hesitant about paying to enter a contest where I know, before even having opened the box, that I have very little, and most likely no, chance of getting any of the ‘loot’. Why should I?

To support the community that's why. I think this illustrates the real issue here. It's really a phillisophical one when you break it down. I'm in for the fun and have no expectation of winning anything. I'm not that good and I know it. I just enjoy participating in the community and the contest is a huge event within the community. In my opinion, if all you ever do in life is participate in things that benefit yourself your in for a lonely ending.

Look, this isn't a sport or a game, it's an art contest. It involves modelling and photography with a little bit of writing. It's totally subjective. Everyone here knows you can hide a lot of mistakes with the right camera angle and lighting. I've had the opportunity to handle models in person that looked perfect in photo's but were way less than spectacular when seen in person. Surprisingly so, i might add.

I've been giving this a lot of thought and there are two things that I think would be beneficial. One would be the mandatory blog and the second would be to allow more photos. Say 3-5 mandatory shots and 10 -15 of your choice. It was hard to make some decisions last year during the voting and more detail photo's would have really helped. Some may say the blog is giving away secrets but I've never ran across a modeller who wouldn't share his or her techniques. I think it would make the comp even more fun.

Also, I can see splitting out the youth to there own division but other than that I really see no reason to divide things further. Even then I've seen some youth builds that are quite a bit better than most of mine and I've built hundreds of kits over the years.

There's really no right answer here. We all have different personalities, ideas, and motivations. these kinds of discussions have been going on forever. One thing is for sure. No matter how or if the rules change I will participate to participate. Not because I have any chance at all of winning anything but because I enjoy this community and the members of this community. What's a few bucks to "hang out" with some of the best people and modellers on the planet? :)
 

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