Question for 2012 contest

I really like building models and I spend lots of time building models. In fact, I just got home from spending the weekend at a show with many model building friends where we talked about models and looked at models (and even built some models in the hotel room at night) and I think I'm going to go build a model right now.

Somehow, (and call me crazy), I get this sneaking suspicion that spending lots of time at the bench building models really helps to improve ones skill set.

Of course, I've been wrong before.

Carry on.
 
"I'm coming out of the Booth"!!!! ;D

First...I keep writing stuff and more posts keep posting in!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D And I for one would love to be sitting at the bench v.s. typing away her and now!! ;)

OK then~

Hey fellas!!

Been quiet on this for a while. (I am sure some might like it that way ::) ) This has remained civil...for the moment anyway! Thank you for that!

Been pondering for while here whether to post or not. Been staying out of it, allowing the full expression of the opinions of all individuals, as it should be.

First let me start by saying how incredibly flattered I am that I could not only be included in a group of individuals as well respected as Ken and Chris and others that are considered "masters", but let's not forget that I am included in a group of individuals know as the HERD, right here on SMA to!!! No bigger or smaller than anyone else here.

I feel there is a tremendous amount of talent within these walls and Scott has created one of the best places on the .net to come here and relax, enjoy and most of all PARTICIPATE. I said that one a bit loud because I feel that we all have the right to participate... noobe to Grand Poo-pah!!!

I spent the better part of my morning anxiously tapping on the keys then backspaced right back to square one! Why I have is the only disturbing part.

I have read people wanting to not enter because they feel they are throwing their money away, why enter because they would not have a chance...so on and so on.

Let me respond with this....


Before the SMA BSC, I ran across Scratchmod's forum which led me to here. I decided to join after seeing some really great builders and the friendly atmosphere within this community. True, i think I joined rather close to the BSC. Did I join for the contest???? Take a look at my post count and build logs and I think that question is answered!

Next I would venture to mention that before entering anything into the BSC, I have never entered any model in any contest.....EVER! 8) Am I proud??/ Heck yeah!! Humbled?? Most friggin' definitely. Not for one moment did I think that I had a chance of winning this contest. Possibly at one point I thought maybe the auto, but I was still on the fence with that after seeing the competition!!!

I had the absolute pleasure of talking with Scott G yesterday afternoon a trade show! I told him I was excited to see him post the 3 videos for the results of the contest. I sat painstakingly throughout the entire 45 minutes or so of video only to have my flippin' jaw hit the desk in front of me. I must have cliqued back in the video, 3 or 4 times!! I still did not believe that something that I made was judged by my peers as being the BOS!!! Humbled and ecstatic I still am thankful for the win!! It never dawned to me what I had won actually until I received an e-mail from Scott congratulating me and in a lighthearted manner mentioning that I would be having a bunch of cool stuff hitting my door step soon!! Then It sunk in!!! Mostly how freaking incredibly lucky I must have been!!!

With that....

Does this contest or anything else for that matter, need reform??...most definitely. There is always a way to improve on everything!! Do I know how to make changes to make ALL parties involved happy? most certainly not. Civil discussion like this are certainly a path in the right direction. Remember though, in the end the SMA BSC will go on and the final say lies with the fury dude,North of the border to me, wearing the bright orange tuque and hopefully not a matching pair of speedos to go with it!!

I would submit to say that whether you are new or old to the hobby and you aspire to be truly good at what you like to do....give everything you have into it! Ask questions, read blogs...build, Build, BUILD!!!! The more you build the more you learn. The more you learn the more ideas come to mind.

If asked to sit out the contest, would I??? Yup! Because I respect Scott and his Staff at SMA. Would I contribute by paying an entry fee, submitting models and building....Yup!!! Graciously opting out of all voting...sure. Is it right? Not sure. I think that Rob said it right with saying "I would love to compete against people like A. Wilder or Mig, even tho I know I don't stand a chance"... That would be a cool run for the money Rob. But seriously that is a great opportunity to try to hit that so-called "Bar" that is being coveted!! If because I won BOS on my first time out of the gate, I am asked to be in a certain category over another...so be it! So the Orange Topped Man has speakith it, so it shall be!! ::)

I think that individuals that enter, should be required to have a build log. Not only does it show progress of the build it brings in cohesiveness to the contest and is just plain FUN watching. I think it was touched on about "secrets" of how some people are doing things. Sorry if I laugh..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D, OK, out of my system. Here is the thing about secrets in modeling..........there are NONE!! ;) 99.9876387% of all techniques are a google away!!! That remaining less than 1%...Ken can try and keep from us, but, I will figure it out!! ;) Ask if you don't know!!! Someone will always answer!!!

Let me touch on a word.....F-U-N!!! 3 letters when put together spell out what this hobby should be all about! If you are not having fun at it no matter what you do or try....you may want to consider quitting.

I can tell you that building for me is for, well, for ME! If someone someday wishes to buy something of mine, not they are for sale...which they are not (yet :-X) or whether they ask me to build something for them on commission...awesome!! If they don't.....who cares? ((((LOL))))!!

I think that one HUGE part is feeling when it comes to building, not just mine though . I will leave you with this quote from a person I consider to be a friend. I have never met him and we do not converses often but our paths do cross here on this forum sometimes.

From Myke:

and I quote..."I'm really not sure what to say here. This is proper art! It mimics real life so well. Just looking at it I can smell old truck, and tackle box. I can picture an evening with the mosquitoes buzzing around and hear the crickets chirping and feel breezes off the nearby lake. I can feel the ballcap on my head, and grease and mud under my fingernails, and a days worth of summer sweat on my neck, and I'm going fishing with my dad. " - http://www.scalemodeladdict.com/forum/index.php/topic,2465.msg35137.html#msg35137

I am incredibly humbled and blessed, still to this day by this. To have been able to invoke an emotional response like this from something I have created. Let me remind you folks...first contest, crappy Revell F-250, some glue and paint along with a whole bunch of the best conversation while build I have ever had or seen!!! Thanks again Myke!!

Now, after all this ranting that I have contributed to this discussion, I ask myself some questions....Do I feel better now? Felt fine before! Do I feel segregated a bit now? Sure! Will I stop what I like to do? Nope!! Bigger and Better!!!!!! Look out!! ;D

So excuse me when I say....If you want it, go for it!!! I somehow did! ::)

Thanks Scott and the rest of the SMA Staff! And especially thank you to the HERD!!

Respectfully,

Where's my coat?? :p I need to go build something!!! ;)
 
One thing I might add..just prize ideas...but since they were a big hit..maybe some of those awesome calendars...I know I'd wait for them if I won one...rock on though...I am following Ken's lead and heading to the shop...
 
Jeeves said:
One thing I might add..just prize ideas...but since they were a big hit..maybe some of those awesome calendars...I know I'd wait for them if I won one...rock on though...I am following Ken's lead and heading to the shop...
Click to expand...

Hey who says he is they only one modeling.....? Doh!
 
Ok ,

I was going to bite my tongue and say nowt about this , But Im sorry ...Its annoying me now and I feel the need to speak .. So here goes .

First up ,this statement from page 5 of this thread .....

Thinking out loud here. What about this idea? If a person has placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd in any category, in the previous years contest, they would not be eligable to place in the next years (or even next 2 years) contest(s). This could help to keep the contest fresh and exciting. Just thinkin' out loud here.

Really ....So penalizing a good modeller is a good idea then ?? Some one who has put the time and effort in to become the best he can should be told ...you cant enter next year because you're too good !!! .....Yeah ...That makes sense ??

That statement was followed up with this one ...again page 5 of this thread .....

Yes spud, that is kind of where I'm going with this idea. I mean, there are a half a dozen or so builders here who will possibly (and undoubtedly), sweep the placings year after year if they choose to enter. Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic that we have a handful of members here at SMA that are quite literally, world class modellers! It's been nothing but beneficial to the site and personally, I've learned a ton from these guys! Extremely valuable to have the examples and resources some guys contribute...No doubt about it. BUT...As far as the SMA contest is concerned, it could eventually get a little disheartening for the mere mortals who participate. I Don't think whether or not a person is on the administration enters into it.

Again I have to say ...REALLY !!!!
Let me get this right then ....and correct me if Im wrong ,But what is being said here is ...Its ok for the good modellers to remain on site ,pass on their tips & techs ,be forthcoming with advice when ask for it ,and generally do the best they can to contribute to the site & community . BUT ...shouldnt be entering the competitions because its not fair !!!! Thats pretty much what has been said in that statement ....isnt it ???
Well ,Im not out to upset anyone ..although I probably have done now ,Im simply having my say ...as I see it .
I will add just one last thing . I have been annoyed by some of the things I have been reading and have decided I will NOT be entering this year ...or any other year after .

I do hope you all enjoy the comp .

Have a nice day .

Chris.
 
Sorry you feel that way? But the whole conversation migrated to other ideas.....Well after that ....

You kinda jump the gun! ( I ) for one! would not mind entering in something different than I previously competed in! And won! Either 3,2, or 1st! If any? I can still apply what ever skills I possess to another medium! And get a lesser experienced modeler a chance at getting a prize , In the Armour category! As an example!

And if I win again in another category..... The better! Proves all what you were saying right!

Chris! Take a breather and think it over!

The topic you chose to pick on was at the extreme left of the suggestions board.....
We don't want to hear Flare ups! But constructive criticism on how to come to a level plane! Of course some suggestions might be... A little out there.... But none the less...

Anyway!

We know there some here that don't want any changes! And others do! It's like politic! Win some lose some!

Later buddy!
 
OOOoooooo Chris.....No man NO! Don't do it buddy!!

Since the statements you quote were made by me, allow me to speak to them.

I totally see your point on those original statements I made Chris! I agree that they were, and are well out of order in their original form. Although it was not my intent to be out of order at that time...I was!

These statements were a "rough draft" of a solution to fix, IMHO, a fundamental problem with the SMA BSC. After being educated and enlightened, through discussion and debate, over the last few days by the SMA membership, please allow me to amend the proposal. (I was going to do this earlier today and probably should have)!

Current Proposal: The SMA BSC would contain separate categories to accomodate the various skill levels of entrants.

I sure do hope you will reconsider Chris. Your absence from the contest would be very, very detrimental to it! That is precisely the opposite of what is trying to be achieved here.
 
I was afraid it will come to this and I do hope you will think it over Chris. At least for me watching you brining a piece of resin to live was something great. Because of you I gave oils another chance and I'm beginning to like them. I hope you will reconsider.
Cheers
Lukasz
 
How did you honestly expect those of us who have been implied, alluded to and even in some cases actually named repeatedly react? We've been singled out in more than one post, by more than one person and almost vilified...

All under the guise of fairness and improvement.

You really think Im going to enter again after this crusade?
 
Hey guys if I were considered one of those elites and placed on a pedestal I would
be tickled to death and i'm afraid of heights. ;D

That's the thing about real life no matter what they say "There will always be winners, losers and quitters."
One of the things listed I ain't.

That's all i've got to say about that.
Tony lee :)
 
Woooo. Ken!

I read many posts that were actually pretty darn nice towards you. As being such a great modeler! We admire your work! Ken Isn't that the best of flattery? Yes we are jealous! So be it! But that doesn't mean all SMA members entering the contest wants to level up to you! Your work is Awesome and might be very intimidating to lesser Modelers....

It's not because Chris reacted a little steep that all hell is braking lose! No one has traced a line in the sand..... Yet on where they stand on the issue!

A lot of good points have been formulated in the last few days! And What 's the big deal with trying to bring change? Last year we talked about it and the same peoples squashed it.

Does anybody here feels threaten by the change? Maybe the changes won't happen till later...maybe never? But at least people's are voicing their ideas.... stumping at it won't help this tread!
 
Ken Abrams said:
How did you honestly expect those of us who have been implied, alluded to and even in some cases actually named repeatedly react? We've been singled out in more than one post, by more than one person and almost vilified...

All under the guise of fairness and improvement.

You really think Im going to enter again after this crusade?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that question is directed at me ;)

You're right Ken. Naming the elite builders as I did was also out of order on my part. I apologize to you Ken, TRM and Chris. Not at all tactful on my part. I did a wronger and I own it. I know the horse is already out of the barn on that Ken, TRM and Chris, but I'm truly sorry.

Let me assure you Ken, and others that this is certainly not a witch hunt on my part (again, I can only speak for myself). No guise here! I firmly believe that the present structure of the contest is unfair. If the staff feels otherwise, no problem. You Guys set the policy. I'll say the same thing to you Ken that I said to Chris....Your absence from the contest would be very, very detrimental to it! That is precisely the opposite of what is trying to be achieved here. Having said that, we're all big boys here and each can make their own choices and choose their own path.
 
Guys, guys, guys...

I think you’re wildly overreacting. How did we, in the space of just a few posts, go from a civilised debate to people feeling vilified and now refusing to enter the competition?

To me, these reactions just prove that something needs to be done. In fact, it was the very thing I was saying that I worried about!
The whole point of this debate was to find some common ground, not to split the community!

Now, how about this for a future contest?

All contestants can enter as “standard” or “advanced” (with the really juicy ‘loot’ reserved for the advanced contestants, of course). Contestants can enter whatever class and category they want but the judges can move any and all entries to a new category or class as they see fit.
In addition, each year a special price is awarded, decided by the community, to the member who has shown the greatest improvement since the last contest.

That should ensure that 1) people can compete at the level they feel most comfortable at and 2) there is still an incentive to push yourself and rise to the challenge of doing even better than last time.

Just an idea...


In any case, if we’ve reached the point where some people are feeling hurt by this debate then, reluctantly, I would suggest that the powers that be steps in ASAP and settles the issue.
Don’t get me wrong here... Normally I would agree completely with fumblethumps that a discussion should be allowed to run its course as long as it’s civil (as I certainly feel that this debate has been) but if people are now feeling hurt then I think it’s about time that the debate is closed before it turns really ugly...


In any case, if I somehow stepped on someone’s toes then I certainly do apologise. That was never my intention – I simply wanted to voice my concern that we risked chasing noobs away by not allowing them to compete at their own level.


Oh yes, one last thing...

I don’t know what the economy behind this site is – nor is it really any of my business. But if the contest is vital to rising money then I will say that 1) I will certainly enter, if only to support the site and 2) I wouldn’t mind paying a small monthly fee, rather than the entry fee, if need be...
 
well, things turn out really bad... :-[ :'(
I think this separation on advanced and basic level is stupid. The only category that should be considered as "basic" is juniors, if they don't wont to compete the "older" folks.
Removing top modellers from the contest would make it uninteresting to participate and I totally agree with Rob - I would like to compete against Mig or someone from the top level even knowing that I won't reach the tops...
and regarding different leagues in sport - well, if you start from the bottom and you don't wish to be on top - what was the point of beginning?
 
I have no interest, or time for the whole 'point and counterpoint' thing so I will again, make a brief statement. After all, you asked for our responses and now after we've all read to the plethora of novella's, you're getting them. I apologize if they are not what you want to hear.


Scott and I watched this thread over the last few days and discussed it at great length... many, many times, over the course of five pages and three days. There is no knee jerk reaction on my or Chris' part or here. Not entering is not the same as quitting but think what you will Tony.


I think in all honesty, you should probably stop and realize you've all said your piece over the last five pages and three days, many times and at the very least give Scott the time to return home after a long trip, spend time with his family, and respond in due course.

'till then, go build something.
 
There is one thing most of you are forgetting about the SMA contest.

It isn't IPMS, or AMPS, or any other organization, it is SMA, and as such the winners are voted on by YOU the entrants.

No penlights, no dental mirrors, tirelessly pouring over the subject looking to take points off for this or that.

YOU look at up to 5 photos of each subject and based upon your likes, and dislikes, level of work seen, you vote and choose a winner. So there is no team of judges saying that this is Johnny's kit, we think he is a d**khead so we aren't going to score him high (whether he deserves a high score or not), or this is Jimmy's kit...he is an awesome guy, and part of the club, so we are going to score him higher so he wins, (whether he deserves a high score or not). We don't have that here because YOU the entrant is the one that is voting on what kit you like best, and all of those votes get counted, tallied up, and the one with the most points wins......I fail to see how this isn't fair for all, regardless of their skills at building and painting a model.

I have to tell you, with all the whining towards the winners from last year (and I wasn't one of them btw), me personally would think twice about entering just because I don't want to put up with the BS that would follow if I was lucky enough to be picked a winner, and have the others that didn't win hold a grudge and be upset about it lobbying to have the rules changed so it might be easier for them to win next year.

Seems petty to me when the winners are voted on by all the entrants, and not just judged by a select few!
 
Ken Abrams said:
I have no interest, or time for the whole 'point and counterpoint' thing so I will again, make a brief statement. After all, you asked for our responses and now after we've all read to the plethora of novella's, you're getting them. I apologize if they are not what you want to hear.


Scott and I watched this thread over the last few days and discussed it at great length... many, many times, over the course of five pages and three days. There is no knee jerk reaction on my or Chris' part or here. Not entering is not the same as quitting but think what you will Tony.


I think in all honesty, you should probably stop and realize you've all said your piece over the last five pages and three days, many times and at the very least give Scott the time to return home after a long trip, spend time with his family, and respond in due course.

'till then, go build something.
Click to expand...

That's totally cool Ken. Some folks may enjoy a healthy, non-hostile discussion to try and better things. I think they should be allowed to continue. If you personally don't care to participate, not a problem at all. I'd wager that only a very small percentage of the membership has commented here. It'd be nice to get some more input from members.

I mentioned in an earlier post that Scott G and the staff were under no obligation to comment or rule any time soon. This thread has been moving along very nicely and respectfully thus far with no probs at all.



Elm City Hobbies said:
There is one thing most of you are forgetting about the SMA contest.

It isn't IPMS, or AMPS, or any other organization, it is SMA, and as such the winners are voted on by YOU the entrants.

No penlights, no dental mirrors, tirelessly pouring over the subject looking to take points off for this or that.

YOU look at up to 5 photos of each subject and based upon your likes, and dislikes, level of work seen, you vote and choose a winner. So there is no team of judges saying that this is Johnny's kit, we think he is a d**khead so we aren't going to score him high (whether he deserves a high score or not), or this is Jimmy's kit...he is an awesome guy, and part of the club, so we are going to score him higher so he wins, (whether he deserves a high score or not). We don't have that here because YOU the entrant is the one that is voting on what kit you like best, and all of those votes get counted, tallied up, and the one with the most points wins......I fail to see how this isn't fair for all, regardless of their skills at building and painting a model.

I have to tell you, with all the whining towards the winners from last year (and I wasn't one of them btw), me personally would think twice about entering just because I don't want to put up with the BS that would follow if I was lucky enough to be picked a winner, and have the others that didn't win hold a grudge and be upset about it lobbying to have the rules changed so it might be easier for them to win next year.

Seems petty to me when the winners are voted on by all the entrants, and not just judged by a select few!
Click to expand...



With all due respect Scott, I think you are missing the point.
 
Speaking of missing the point...

::)

fumblethumbs said:
I mentioned in an earlier post that Scott G and the staff were under no obligation to comment or rule any time soon. This thread has been moving along very nicely and respectfully thus far with no probs at all.
Click to expand...

Speaking as the person who just spent 72 hours attached at the hip to the man who owns this forum and discussing the topic of this thread at great length, I'm sure he'll appreciate your generosity in that...

seriously, out of respect for him, give it it a rest already?
 

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