2012 BSC - Questions

[Junkie]

The clincher is the figure in the question above.

Tank on base > Armor

Tank on base and a figure > Diorama

 

[TRM]

SMA Lunch Menu

Tank on base ................$5

Tank on base w/figure....................$5

Tank w/ side of fries . ...................$7.50

Tank Supreme; comes with 3 figures, one tree, side of fries and your choice of soft drink .........................$8.25



(leaving now....where my coat : )

 

[ShutterAce]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

ow that was funny!

Thanks T!

SMA Lunch Menu

Tank on base ................$5

Tank on base w/figure....................$5

Tank w/ side of fries . ...................$7.50

Tank Supreme; comes with 3 figures, one tree, side of fries and your choice of soft drink .........................$8.25



(leaving now....where my coat : )

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

If a kit had a figure included, and you made a simple base with terrain or trees stuff like that would it fall into Diorama Category.

Am I the only builder who always base his models? I just think it adds that final touch to the model.

When I asked about dioramas last year I was told that, if it showed a story, then it was a diorama. I think this was a good way of doing it. Placing a tank on a base with a bit of sand and grass isn't really, in my eyes, a diorama. Placing it on a base with attending ground crew doing repairs - now, that would be a diorama.

Your call, of course. I'm just a bit bummed that I might have to leave all my builds "unfinished" or enter them all into the diorama category...

Ha!

"All"...

I should probably be glad to finish just one... ;D

Go to any show, tank on a base with any ground work, whether it has a figure or not, is considered a diorama, or at the very least a vignette.

I entered a ZSU 23/4 into an IPMS contest once, and I had it on a base, with the only ground work being a coat of sand, with a small piece of a stone wall....no figures on the base or on the vehicle, and it was classified as a diorama.

If you put your tank (with or without a figure) on a simple wooden plaque, with ZERO ground work, it is still classified as an armor entry.

However that same tank (with or without a figure) on the same wooden plaque, with gravel, sand, and/or grass simply attached to it to make it all aesthetically pleasing, makes it a diorama.

The whole point of a diorama telling a story, is a good rule to live by....but just because it doesn't tell a story, doesn't necessarily not make it a diorama.

 

[Quaralane]

Words to follow, ECH. Words to follow.

 

[spud]

wise words from Mr ECH there. not all Dios need to tell a story sure there the interesting ones but a little bit of ground work looks better than noting at all,

 

[f2k]

If a kit had a figure included, and you made a simple base with terrain or trees stuff like that would it fall into Diorama Category.

Am I the only builder who always base his models? I just think it adds that final touch to the model.

When I asked about dioramas last year I was told that, if it showed a story, then it was a diorama. I think this was a good way of doing it. Placing a tank on a base with a bit of sand and grass isn't really, in my eyes, a diorama. Placing it on a base with attending ground crew doing repairs - now, that would be a diorama.

Your call, of course. I'm just a bit bummed that I might have to leave all my builds "unfinished" or enter them all into the diorama category...

Ha!

"All"...

I should probably be glad to finish just one... ;D

Go to any show, tank on a base with any ground work, whether it has a figure or not, is considered a diorama, or at the very least a vignette.

I entered a ZSU 23/4 into an IPMS contest once, and I had it on a base, with the only ground work being a coat of sand, with a small piece of a stone wall....no figures on the base or on the vehicle, and it was classified as a diorama.

If you put your tank (with or without a figure) on a simple wooden plaque, with ZERO ground work, it is still classified as an armor entry.

However that same tank (with or without a figure) on the same wooden plaque, with gravel, sand, and/or grass simply attached to it to make it all aesthetically pleasing, makes it a diorama.

The whole point of a diorama telling a story, is a good rule to live by....but just because it doesn't tell a story, doesn't necessarily not make it a diorama.

I guess we’ll just have to disagree on that then.

To me, the whole purpose of a diorama is to tell a story. No story, no diorama.

That’s why I’m also not entirely in agreement with the crew figure = diorama thing. Just because my tank commander has decided to poke his head out of the hatch for a moment, it doesn’t necessarily tell a story (although it’s certainly closer than if there hadn’t been a commander in the first place).

I guess I really am one of the few persons, then, who consider a base to be an integral part of the model itself.

For example, I’m considering entering my AH-6A helicopter in the contest. And I will, quite naturally, mount it on a base. No crew, no story, Just a simple concrete heli-pad. That, at least to my mind, is not a diorama.

Anyway, Scott makes the rules, so that’s just the way it will have to be. If a simple concrete base makes it a diorama, then that is the category I will enter it into.
I didn’t intend to start an argument about Scott’s decisions here – I was merely voicing my opinion...

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

OK...true Scott G makes the rules, but he does listen to us within reason.

I am one of the organizers behind our local show here, and in our rules (not affiliated with any organization like IPMS, AMPS, NNL, whatever).

Tank/vehicle is on a simple wooden plaque, it can be entered in it's native category.

If you lay down some sod/sand on said plaque, because that constitutes ground work, it is considered a diorama, whether or not it tells a story, and whether or not if it has a figure or not.

Armored vehicles with their crew, as long as the crew members are in/on the tank, it is still considered an Armored entry, but as soon as one of those figures touches the ground, or, you add say an infantry figure on the ground talking up to the commander, then it is considered a diorama. With that being said, if you came with a T34 with half an infantry squad hanging off the tank....I would consider that a diorama as well, since the tank doesn't require those infantry to operate, (maybe for their survival, but definitely not operation).

Looking up IPMS Canada National rules I did come across this in their rules however:

4.10 Bases/Dioramas. Bases will be allowed in all categories and will not be considered in the judging except in the Diorama classes. The use of display bases is encouraged to help in moving models. If used, there should be a note indicating whether the model is attached to the base or not, either separately by the contestant or as a check-box on the entry form. A base may be a piece of undecorated wood, plastic or glass or it may simulate the natural surface on which the prototype would be found. However, nothing other than that surface may be used. Aircraft and military vehicles may rest on simulated ground or paving, and aircraft that need beaching gear or dollies may be so equipped. Ships may be displayed in water. The base must not be the predominant feature of the entry and must be of a size proportionate to the model. The Chief Judge and judges reserve the right to exclude oversize bases. The model may include primary crew figures. The addition of any other figures or equipment outside or not attached to the model (e.g., support equipment, shell splashes, or buildings) will make the model a Diorama, which should then be entered in the proper Diorama category. However, if a contestant prefers to enter in a strictly aircraft category (i.e. non-diorama), then it must be clear that the accessories on the base will be ignored during judging. Dioramas are judged not only on the technical merit of their construction but also on the strength of the theme or story they present, so that if two dioramas were technically equal the one having the stronger theme or story would win. A previous national contest winner may be used as part of a diorama as long as it not the primary focus of the diorama.

And while that is the Canadian IPMS designation, it pretty much mirrors the US IPMS designation for dioramas.

 

[Junkie]

There are bound to be so entries and that on the thin red line between diorama or not.

Build it as you like and if it's really close the staff will debate it.

If you build a chopper on a heli pad, that's one thing. If there's a mechanic or a pilot standing beside it or a medic, then that's another.

I know this is a gray area and that's why : Vehicle plus basic ground is not dio, add a figure and it is. We gotta draw a line somewhere and that's where my pencil went.

If you want to add a figure just take a pic before you add it. No biggy.

 

[Quaralane]

Of course, with "figure" here, I'm presuming we mean "other than in the cockpit/at the controls"?

 

[Chris S]

So what category does a single figure or bust go into then ?

Chris.

 

[Eastrock]

Thanks for the Reply Scott G. I was planning to put it on the kit on its environment.

ECH, Thanks for pointing out I guess that's set the record straight


Chris, Good Question are you a rugby player (avatar) ;D

 

[Jeeves]

Yeah, we have to keep everyone on the same playing field. So if it's already been worked on, to any degree, it is ineligible.

No biggie. I was thinking I might just go ahead and build it anyways without the pillbox-- but it really would be central to the theme I want to portray...so I'll just build it later...so might just do two builds instead of three...

 

[Chris S]

Chris, Good Question are you a rugby player (avatar) ;D

Used to be ER

Chris.

 

[Junkie]

So what category does a single figure or bust go into then ?

No dedicated cat this year. Gonna have to put in on some groundwork and call it a diorama.

Or build a tank etc...

 

[Neo]

Red leader standing by!!

hum cant believe no one fell for this one .. you guys have a too short memory :-[

 

[Black Sheep 1]

If a kit had a figure included, and you made a simple base with terrain or trees stuff like that would it fall into Diorama Category.

Am I the only builder who always base his models? I just think it adds that final touch to the model.

When I asked about dioramas last year I was told that, if it showed a story, then it was a diorama. I think this was a good way of doing it. Placing a tank on a base with a bit of sand and grass isn't really, in my eyes, a diorama. Placing it on a base with attending ground crew doing repairs - now, that would be a diorama.

Your call, of course. I'm just a bit bummed that I might have to leave all my builds "unfinished" or enter them all into the diorama category...

Ha!

"All"...

I should probably be glad to finish just one... ;D

Go to any show, tank on a base with any ground work, whether it has a figure or not, is considered a diorama, or at the very least a vignette.

I entered a ZSU 23/4 into an IPMS contest once, and I had it on a base, with the only ground work being a coat of sand, with a small piece of a stone wall....no figures on the base or on the vehicle, and it was classified as a diorama.

If you put your tank (with or without a figure) on a simple wooden plaque, with ZERO ground work, it is still classified as an armor entry.

However that same tank (with or without a figure) on the same wooden plaque, with gravel, sand, and/or grass simply attached to it to make it all aesthetically pleasing, makes it a diorama.

The whole point of a diorama telling a story, is a good rule to live by....but just because it doesn't tell a story, doesn't necessarily not make it a diorama.

I'm trying to understand the "telling a story" vs "not telling a story" concept you guys are talking about.
To be they all tell a story, how detailed the story? Depends on the detail of the build.
Example:
Take an M1A1 just sitting on a base with some sand. To me it says this tank is waiting to move or ready to fire.

Take a Tiger sitting on a base with dirt. But the tank has some bent road wheels and the track is all bent and broken. There's a hole in the side of the hull and some burn marks. Well that tells me this guy got blown up!

So, when would it not tell a story? To me it would be a model displayed on a plain base or no base at all. Yes? or No?

 

[f2k]

If a kit had a figure included, and you made a simple base with terrain or trees stuff like that would it fall into Diorama Category.

Am I the only builder who always base his models? I just think it adds that final touch to the model.

When I asked about dioramas last year I was told that, if it showed a story, then it was a diorama. I think this was a good way of doing it. Placing a tank on a base with a bit of sand and grass isn't really, in my eyes, a diorama. Placing it on a base with attending ground crew doing repairs - now, that would be a diorama.

Your call, of course. I'm just a bit bummed that I might have to leave all my builds "unfinished" or enter them all into the diorama category...

Ha!

"All"...

I should probably be glad to finish just one... ;D

Go to any show, tank on a base with any ground work, whether it has a figure or not, is considered a diorama, or at the very least a vignette.

I entered a ZSU 23/4 into an IPMS contest once, and I had it on a base, with the only ground work being a coat of sand, with a small piece of a stone wall....no figures on the base or on the vehicle, and it was classified as a diorama.

If you put your tank (with or without a figure) on a simple wooden plaque, with ZERO ground work, it is still classified as an armor entry.

However that same tank (with or without a figure) on the same wooden plaque, with gravel, sand, and/or grass simply attached to it to make it all aesthetically pleasing, makes it a diorama.

The whole point of a diorama telling a story, is a good rule to live by....but just because it doesn't tell a story, doesn't necessarily not make it a diorama.

I'm trying to understand the "telling a story" vs "not telling a story" concept you guys are talking about.
To be they all tell a story, how detailed the story? Depends on the detail of the build.
Example:
Take an M1A1 just sitting on a base with some sand. To me it says this tank is waiting to move or ready to fire.

Take a Tiger sitting on a base with dirt. But the tank has some bent road wheels and the track is all bent and broken. There's a hole in the side of the hull and some burn marks. Well that tells me this guy got blown up!

So, when would it not tell a story? To me it would be a model displayed on a plain base or no base at all. Yes? or No?

Hmmm...

Your first example is not what I would call a “story”. Your second example is...

To return to my previous example with the helicopter. If I make a base with a bit of concrete then it wouldn’t, in my mind, tell a story - it’s simply a helicopter displayed on an appropriate base. If, on the other hand, I added some ground crew working on it then it would be telling a story.

I do admit that it’s not always that simple to say. And that, in the end, it will come down to an individual’s perception of what’s going on.

I’m kinda reminded of a debate that went on regarding bases in Games Workshop’s Golden Daemon competition some time ago. At one point, some of the bases became so elaborate that they began distracting from the model itself.
I would suggest that that would be a fairly good way of separating a “story” from a “non-story”. If the base feels natural and doesn’t distract from the model then it’s simply an appropriate base. If it distracts from the model itself, drawing your attention away from the model itself and onto the peripherals, then it’s a diorama.

Interestingly enough, that would actually mark both of your examples as “non-story” since neither of them has anything distracting away from the model itself.

Oh well, nothing’s perfect...

In the end I’ll say it’s up to Scott to decide. It’s an interesting debate, but it’s his contest. And if he feels that a base with a bit of grass makes it a diorama, then so it is...

 

[Grendels]

oh almost forgot the most important question !!

Do we get to see Grendels lovely assistant this year ??

Lol no she is for his eyes only ... Jammy git ;D but im sure when she can and is able to come on mabe she will,

This will answer all:

An important announcement

I made it just for you Neo....

 

[Grendels]

SMA Lunch Menu

Tank on base ................$5

Tank on base w/figure....................$5

Tank w/ side of fries . ...................$7.50

Tank Supreme; comes with 3 figures, one tree, side of fries and your choice of soft drink .........................$8.25



(leaving now....where my coat : )

Nice one!