Vallejo stick to my hairbrush

[Vaillant]

Hello,

I'm using Vallejo paint and like it very much. Though I ran into an issue.
I was preshading my airplane with a mix of 50/50 black primer and airbrush thinner. The paint kept sticking to the needle of my hairbrush.

I'm using an Aztek A430 at 15psi and use the finest head (tan 0.3) and the fine acrylic head (black) and with either head, I had to wash the needle after every lines and the flow was so irregular that sometime I would get no paint and sometime "spiders" like crazy.

Any tip on improving my painting experience at low pressure. Should I use Vallejo retarder, another type of retarder, mix with windex, get a new airbrush????

Thanks for the help.
Jeremy

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Which Vallejo paint were you using?

If it was one of the Model Color paints, I would say it wasn't thin enough, usually thin mine out about 60/40 Thinner to Paint to start and then go from there.

If it was their new Urethane Black Primer....I have never needed to thin it to airbrush, has always been good to go right out of the bottle.

 

[Vaillant]

I was using the acrylic polyurethane black primer (74.602).

So thinning it would make it more sticky?
When I primed my model with the grey primer if I didn't thin it it was sticking to my airbrush way too much. With the thinner it worked a lot better but I was spraying around 25/30 psi with a bigger noozle because I wanted to cover the whole plane correctly and not doing any fine line.

 

[sunsanvil]

I'll echo Elm, their new Acrylic/Urethane primers works best strait from the bottle.

The tip-dry you are experiencing is probably at least in part the gun, but mainly the pressure I think. This is a heavier bodied fluid compared to others and it just needs to "move". Somewhat counter-intuitively a low pressure in a less efficient gun causes it to "stall". Try using at least 20psi, even 23. With a good finger on the trigger you can still do very fine work with this stuff at that pressure.

Properly thinned ModelColor, ModelAir strait, or the new primers strait, all I find will tip-dry like crazy on my 200NH if I use a lower pressure. The phenomenon is much less so with my 105 even though its a finer head assembly but I still don't go much below 20psi with it. My Velocity which is even finer does better still in that I've gone entire paint sessions without needing to swab the needle, though by its nature it lets less air through anyway (so 23psi on it feels like 18 on the 105). Point I'm trying to make is that the make/model/head assembly of the airbrush makes a difference and you'll have to figure out what works best for yours.

 

[Vaillant]

Ok thanks for the answer guys, I wonder if I shoul get a new airbrush then because my control of it is very irregular. Seems that I'm either getting almost nothing out and it will clog very easily or I will get way too much paint out and everytime I close the trigger I have to clean the needdle.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

I think as well...using the Aztek with the tan nozzle might be too fine for the primer....switch it up to a bigger nozzle, and a little higher airpressue and you should be ok. After all, I assume you are using the primer to prime a kit....you don't need the fine control of the tan nozzle.

 

[ScaleModelMadman]

I wonder if I shoul get a new airbrush then because my control of it is very irregular. Seems that I'm either getting almost nothing out and it will clog very easily or I will get way too much paint out and everytime I close the trigger I have to clean the needdle.

Well, I wouldn't give up and buy a new brush yet, although I don't have any experience with that airbrush I have experienced similar issues in the past. I would say keep experimenting a little bit and see if you can figure out what works.

I don't want to appear to disagree with the others as their advice has merit and obviously works well for them but I do things a little differently. I guess I don't thin my paints properly, or perhaps I 'over' thin my paints but this works very well for me. I don't count drops and I mix right in the color cup so if I were to guess, I'd say may 70% thinner 30% paint (who knows, maybe 75-25?) and I spray anywhere from 8psi to maybe 12psi... (lets call it 10psi for now) 15 at the very highest. Of course it will require more than one pass to get the color to cover but I use this to my advantage as I like to be able to have the option of a slow shift in color, so this translucency works in my advantage. I can paint within an inch of the surface and have very little problem with paint drying on the tip.


Take the image below, I could personally never get this slow shit in color from the highlight to the base coat at a higher pressure or with a 'thicker' paint mix. Again, each person has there own method that works, I just think you should experiment a bit more.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Hey there Ken,

I do the same, mix in the color cup, and pretty much mix by eye, but it probably works out to about 70/30 thinner to paint, and usually low air pressure.

Vaillant is having a problem pushing the Vallejo Black Primer through his Aztek, with the tan (smallest) nozzle. Black primer doesn't need to be thinned, but isn't playing nice with the small nozzle.

I am sure if I tried to put it through the Infinity with the small needle/nozzle it would give me fits as well....simple solution to it all...it is primer after all, and no need to be so finesse like as you are doing an over all cover....put in a larger nozzle, and you may have to bump up your pressure a bit. I just think the tan nozzle is too small for what you are trying to do.

 

[Vaillant]

Thankd for the answers again.

Elm, i do need fine line because I was not priming my model (I had it already prime with the Vallejo grey primer) I was doing pre shading of my airplane panel lines. So I did need a fine line.

When I was priming the plane (in Grey) I use the white noozle (acrylic large surface) I had to thin the primer at about 70% primer 30% thinner to get a good flow otherwise it would stick too much and I would get no paint out even with the trigger fully push and toward me.

For the preshading I used the black primer started with the tan noozle and got fine line but everytime I would stop spraying I had to wash the noozle otherwise no paint was coming out. I switched to the black nozzle (acrylic smaller surface) it would not clug as much but still a lot and I had a lot harder time to get fine line (I got a lot of spiders).

I also did the wheel bay with some of the Vallejo air range and nothing would come out until I thinned it more.

So I'm kinda stuck.
I'm thinking about buying a Velocity but if I can wait I will wait because I'm tight on budget for now. But I would like to paint without having my Vallejo paint sticking on me like that because it is not even fun to paint in those condition.

Question about the velocity, a lot of you guys seems to like it, but does it spray Vallejo well? (I also want it to be able to clean the whole body which is for me the biggest drawback of the Aztek). Also somebody mentioned that the needle is too fine so can I get a bigger needle.
Finaly I heard there is a v.2 of the velocity, how can I know if the store is going to sell me a v.1 or v.2?

Thank you again for all your help.

 

[panzerace007]

VALLLANT,

I have an AZTEK A470 & an A778 , I've found that these types of AB's shoot better at around ..... 30-32 psi ... I know ..I know .. It's sounds outrageous ... But try it & you should see better results out of th AB. Also don't be afraid to try th Beige tip !!

With th Pre-Shading & fine lines with th Beige tip ... you'll just have to move a lil' faster, but Gently Rock th Trigger barely open .... with th upped pressure you should see better control & better lines !!

 

[Vaillant]

VALLLANT,

I have an AZTEK A470 & an A778 , I've found that these types of AB's shoot better at around ..... 30-32 psi ... I

I will give it a shoot certainly tonight to see how it goes with some model air paint.

 

[Vaillant]

Well I tried to airbrush Vallejo air color with the black nozzle at about 30/32 psi. I didn't thin the paint at all and it went ok. I had a little bit more trouble with the white color though.

 

[panzerace007]

VALLLANT,

Correct Me if I'm wrong ... but I think th Black Nozzle is meant for shooting Ink . I think you'd have better results by using the Grey Nozzle for the Primer & the Beige Nozzle to shoot the Pre-Shade. ?? As the Primer & Model Air are a bit thicker than Ink ... ??

Keep us posted !!

 

[Vaillant]

VALLLANT,

Correct Me if I'm wrong ... but I think th Black Nozzle is meant for shooting Ink . I think you'd have better results by using the Grey Nozzle for the Primer & the Beige Nozzle to shoot the Pre-Shade. ?? As the Primer & Model Air are a bit thicker than Ink ... ??

Keep us posted !!

Panzerace,

My understanding is different. I thought the black and the white noozles were more dedicated to shooting acrylic instead of enamel paint.
http://www.testors.com/product/137226/9340C/_/Black_.40mm

When I shoot the black primer though because I added 50% of thinner the mix was quite liquid. This is why it's surprised me that it would stick so much and using higher pressure would make a mess.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

I never really understood why they continue to market the nozzles by saying Nozzle X is for enamel, Nozzle Y is for acrylic.

Take for instance, the Grey and Black nozzles....both are .4mm, but it says black is for Acrylics, Grey for Lacquers, metalizers, etc.

Thing is, the internal components are the same on both of them, plastic housing, metal needle and spring, no difference between the 2 nozzles other than the color, so you should be able to use either nozzle for either acrylic or lacquer/enamel. Just a big marketing ploy by Testors to get you to buy more product.

 

[sunsanvil]

Vail, I'm re-reading all your posts here are honestly I'm starting to think something is not quite right with your hardware. I mean, we can debate all day the finer points, but Vallejo Air or their Acryl/Ureth primers should not give you THAT much trouble under any circumstances...without any thinning. I mean, swab the needle every 5 minutes maybe, but not what you are describing here (unless I've misunderstood you).

Having said that, I'm not sure what the next step would be to trouble shoot this. If at 30+ psi things seem "ok" than it might be an air valve issue, or there might have at one time been some paint that migrated back into the air chamber of the gun's body and is now restricting pressure or something.

 

[ScaleModelMadman]

Yeah I agree with that completely, at 30+PSI you should be able to shoot sand through that thing.



*okay not sand, that was slightly exaggerated for effect. ;D

 

[Vaillant]

Sunsanvil,

You may be right. I do not feel that I'm lacking air pressure at all but on the third time I used the airbrush I had an accident: I put paint in the paint cup while I forgot to put the noozle in the gun. I cleaned everything up and I don't see any paint residue anymore (cleaning the gun was a pain because you can't wash it). But I may have damage something with the paint or the cleaning. :

Elm that is true that the difference between noozle are mostly name, color and marketing.

Maybe I should buy a new airbrush and see. If somebody can help answer my questions about the velocity in a previous post that would be appreciated.

 

[KeiserSoze]

IMO, this entire thread just makes me glad I went ahead and spent the few extra $ on a good airbrush. Iwata FTW! So easy to break down and clean. Even when I do have trouble with certain paints/mixtures/thinners, it is all easily cleaned up and back together in <5 mins.

 

[panzerace007]

SCOTT,

I'm not sure if it makes a difference , but the Black Nozzle is blunted on the end & the Grey/ Beige one is more traditionally somewhat pointed.

@ Valllant - That news to Me ... D'Oh !! I never knew /payed attention to that !! ... I'll give th Black nozzle a chance on some Acrylic

Valllant - Another thing to consider is that Aztek's have a life time Guarantee . If you send an E-Mail to Customer Service & mail it back to them ... They may be able to set you straight. I'm speaking from experience - My A470 's trigger took a dump. I sent an E-mail & mentioned what was wrong with th Airbrush. I sent it back & it looks like They sent Me a Brand New one !! Turnaround time seemed Very Reasonable ( 14 days ? ) . Excellant Customer Service !! - Just a thought. It beats dropping $100+ for a new AB ..... Unless you want to. ...

* Check out Testor's site -
http://www.testors.com/contact_us I spoke with Beth . Awesome Customer Service