Q&A | Aircraft Group Build - Navy and Marine Aircraft

[schweinhund227]

Nice Chopper !!! and Brand New to !!! Didn't know Hobby Boss made that one !

 

[Eastrock]

Thanks buds, initially I was searching for the Cobra but a friend of mine told me the Gun barrel in the front was molded solid with no separate parts, need to do some scratchbuild to make it more accurate. got this one less than $5.

 

[Myke]

Nice choice EastRock

 

[Airmedical]

You know that smell and that sound? That smell of jet-A early in the morning with the sound of winding twin jet turbine engines cranking up off in the distance? That sound of rumbling thunder just above the tree tops? That's the smell of peer power. The sound of "to the rescue" and "the cavelry's on their way".

It's a good thing we have 5 months to build.

I'm thinking blades!

 

[Eastrock]

Thanks Myke, well I have to start searching for the inside and out of the Seahawk, since we got 5 months, might as well practice scratch building and detailing.

 

[f2k]

Surfing though wikipedia (a dangerous pastime as it takes a lot of... well…time…) I came across a curiosity. The US Navy operated four P38F-5’s in North Africa. The navy… Operating land-based aircrafts over the African desert…?

That sounded so weird that I just had to build one…

Only problem is that there’s absolutely no information on this particular unit. There is an Italeri 1:48 scale kit for a D-day version of that particular aircraft. But the beaches of Normandy are rather far from the sands of the North African desert…



Does anyone have any information on that particular unit? Colours? Markings? Etc…

I was thinking about buying the D-day kit and paint it in a dusty yellowish desert-camo ala the British Hurricanes that operated in a ground support rule. It sure would look cool, but if it’s particularly period accurate…?

Ah, well. Who cares about accuracy? As long as it looks cool, right? My only worry is that the only review I could find of that kit was… Shall we say… Somewhat less than positive…

According too Wikipedia, which is not always the best sorce, the US Navy did not really favor the P-38, however they operated a hand full of P-38/F5Bs, 4 of them according to Wiki, and where more land based aircraft. though there are few records of other sources i can find, i think i see a few more sorces. if the Navy used it, then i guess its ok.

My guess if it was navy it would look something like this

i looked for photos of a Navy P-38 and this is what i got, it is a photo of a P-38 for CFS2 which is a WWII Pacific Theater fight simulator, you fly navy and Marine planes like the Corsair, Hellcat, Zero... and they are typically navy based planes... but there are some non navy based planes you can upload, by the color scheme its pritty close too what it should look like...

It sure is a nice paintjob. But blue? Over a desert?

 

[Gundamhead]

Bah. If you're going Naval P-38, this guy nailed it.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580

 

[f2k]

Bah. If you're going Naval P-38, this guy nailed it.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580

Really nice model, I'll give you that.

But were all models in this build not supposed to be of real-life planes? No what-could-have-beens or what-ifs...

 

[Gundamhead]

Bah. If you're going Naval P-38, this guy nailed it.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/rh/articles.php?id=6580

Really nice model, I'll give you that.

But were all models in this build not supposed to be of real-life planes? No what-could-have-beens or what-ifs...

Yes, but how often does a Naval P-38 topic come up? It would have been selfish and shirking my moral obligations to modelers everywhere to not show that build under these circumstances. 8)

 

[Gundamhead]

Here's what some digging came up for me.

P-38 Hardstand
By John Stanaway

The service history of the P-38 is rather obscure in the postwar period. One story of its use was experienced by a Navy veteran who used a late model P-38L or F5, modified for low altitude experimental work. This is Pat Hall’s story in his own words:

My son Dave, who wrote you, hadn't heard the full story of the "Navy" P-38 I flew in. It had nothing to do with my fulltime duties at the U.S. Naval Air Missile Test Center, Point Mugu or my much later duties aboard the USS ESSEX.

I was an aerial photographer for the Navy, working at Point Mugu, the Navy's missile testing base. The photo lab there had an abundance of photogs so when someone needed a small light weight aerial photographer, I got the call. {I was only 5''6" and 125 pounds) I flew down to NOTS Inyokern (the Naval Ordnance Testing Center) at China Lake, where they wanted to see if it was feasible for a photographer to operate in a jump seat behind the pilot of a P-38. I was given a K-20 camera, which was the manual version of the electrical-powered K-25.

We then spent some time introducing me to the modified cockpit, which was a little scary, a tiny jump-seat installed behind the pilot. I do not know what model of the plane this was, but I am sure it was not one of the extended cockpit models, the L series? (I don't even know if it was a NAVY P-38--I assumed it was--or an AIR FORCE P-38 borrowed from them) It looked to me like a standard P-38 where the metal workers had cut away some of the cockpit outline behind the pilot, enlarging the area back there, taken out all the equipment (batteries? radio? etc.?) and installed a tiny jump seat.

My instructions were these: That I was I was to have no oxygen since I wouldn't need it because the flight would be at very low levels. That the mission was only to determine if there was enough room for one to make oblique photos at low altitudes aiming forward at about 10 and 2 o'clock when the plane would bank at speeds.

I was introduced to the pilot. I don't remember his name but do recall that he was blond. He was in typical flight suit with no designators that I noticed. I assumed he was Navy. He told me that while I would wear a seat-pack chute there was probably no way I could ever use it if something happened because I could not get out of the cockpit and if either one of us could, we would probably be too low for the chute to open anyway, and asked if I agreed to this. I said did and squeezed into the area in the back of the pilot and sat on the jump seat. Then the pilot got in and we took off, certainly an experience in itself.

We made several passes at buildings on the edges of NOTS and then areas of landscape near the base. The flight probably lasted 20 minutes tops. We flew mostly at altitudes of about 750-1,000 feet. I made as many pictures as possible, but it was extremely difficult to aim, shoot, and then cock the camera due to the limit of space. We then landed and I had to be "pulled" out of the cockpit sideways. I turned the camera over to the base photo lab and never saw the pictures myself. I spent three more days at NOTS during which I was on stand-by for anything else they might need me for. Nothing developed and I flew back to Mugu.

(It was not unusual for things like this to happen as this was an experimental time for the services and for the missile program especially. At Mugu we trucked our Regulus missile up to Edwards AFB often to launch it for remote control flights. At other launches I flew from Oxnard AFB in an Air Force F-94 to try to photograph a very high speed missile which our Navy T-33's could not keep up with.)

Charles "Pat" Hall
Cheyenne, Wyoming

And there were blue P-38s, but I think those pics above are just game what if schemes. Much the same as the P-38 build I posted.

Here's the real blue P-38 recon.




NOTE: I dont usually edit posts but I changed the blue to red so we can all ready it. - Scott.

 

[f2k]

Here's what some digging came up for me.

P-38 Hardstand
By John Stanaway

The service history of the P-38 is rather obscure in the postwar period. One story of its use was experienced by a Navy veteran who used a late model P-38L or F5, modified for low altitude experimental work. This is Pat Hall’s story in his own words:

My son Dave, who wrote you, hadn't heard the full story of the "Navy" P-38 I flew in. It had nothing to do with my fulltime duties at the U.S. Naval Air Missile Test Center, Point Mugu or my much later duties aboard the USS ESSEX.

I was an aerial photographer for the Navy, working at Point Mugu, the Navy's missile testing base. The photo lab there had an abundance of photogs so when someone needed a small light weight aerial photographer, I got the call. {I was only 5''6" and 125 pounds) I flew down to NOTS Inyokern (the Naval Ordnance Testing Center) at China Lake, where they wanted to see if it was feasible for a photographer to operate in a jump seat behind the pilot of a P-38. I was given a K-20 camera, which was the manual version of the electrical-powered K-25.

We then spent some time introducing me to the modified cockpit, which was a little scary, a tiny jump-seat installed behind the pilot. I do not know what model of the plane this was, but I am sure it was not one of the extended cockpit models, the L series? (I don't even know if it was a NAVY P-38--I assumed it was--or an AIR FORCE P-38 borrowed from them) It looked to me like a standard P-38 where the metal workers had cut away some of the cockpit outline behind the pilot, enlarging the area back there, taken out all the equipment (batteries? radio? etc.?) and installed a tiny jump seat.

My instructions were these: That I was I was to have no oxygen since I wouldn't need it because the flight would be at very low levels. That the mission was only to determine if there was enough room for one to make oblique photos at low altitudes aiming forward at about 10 and 2 o'clock when the plane would bank at speeds.

I was introduced to the pilot. I don't remember his name but do recall that he was blond. He was in typical flight suit with no designators that I noticed. I assumed he was Navy. He told me that while I would wear a seat-pack chute there was probably no way I could ever use it if something happened because I could not get out of the cockpit and if either one of us could, we would probably be too low for the chute to open anyway, and asked if I agreed to this. I said did and squeezed into the area in the back of the pilot and sat on the jump seat. Then the pilot got in and we took off, certainly an experience in itself.

We made several passes at buildings on the edges of NOTS and then areas of landscape near the base. The flight probably lasted 20 minutes tops. We flew mostly at altitudes of about 750-1,000 feet. I made as many pictures as possible, but it was extremely difficult to aim, shoot, and then cock the camera due to the limit of space. We then landed and I had to be "pulled" out of the cockpit sideways. I turned the camera over to the base photo lab and never saw the pictures myself. I spent three more days at NOTS during which I was on stand-by for anything else they might need me for. Nothing developed and I flew back to Mugu.

(It was not unusual for things like this to happen as this was an experimental time for the services and for the missile program especially. At Mugu we trucked our Regulus missile up to Edwards AFB often to launch it for remote control flights. At other launches I flew from Oxnard AFB in an Air Force F-94 to try to photograph a very high speed missile which our Navy T-33's could not keep up with.)

Charles "Pat" Hall
Cheyenne, Wyoming

And there were blue P-38s, but I think those pics above are just game what if schemes. Much the same as the P-38 build I posted.

Here's the real blue P-38 recon.




NOTE: I dont usually edit posts but I changed the blue to red so we can all ready it. - Scott.

Interesting story. Not sure if I would have gotten into the aircraft, but that might just be me...

So would the planes have been blue then? Even when flying over the desert?

 

[ShutterAce]

Blue was a common color for Allied recon planes. Apparently there were 4 aircraft loaned to the Navy by the USAAF. I would say that there is a good possibility that those aircraft looked exactly like the ones in those pics but I have no real way to know that. a guy at my club meeting last night did say that he thought he saw a pic of these particular birds in a book one time but didn't elaborate. I'd bet if you work at it you'll find what youi need. The Bu Nos I posted before should be a great help.

 

[JMac]

I thought the dark blue overall, with the national emblem bordered in red was a Navy scheme. I could be wrong, but I think this is a Navy plane, could somebody else confirm...

 

[13aceofspades13]

I thought the dark blue overall, with the national emblem bordered in red was a Navy scheme. I could be wrong, but I think this is a Navy plane, could somebody else confirm...

this is usually the case, the aircraft if a navy plane was usually painted a navy blue.... and like in that photo, the emblem usually had a red surrounding.

 

[ShutterAce]

I thought the dark blue overall, with the national emblem bordered in red was a Navy scheme. I could be wrong, but I think this is a Navy plane, could somebody else confirm...

this is usually the case, the aircraft if a navy plane was usually painted a navy blue.... and like in that photo, the emblem usually had a red surrounding.

Unfortunately not true either way. The blue is a USAAF recon color. The red surround on the national insignia was used for a very short period of time in 1942 or 1943.

 

[Gundamhead]

http://www.jcs-group.com/military/rank/usafaircraft.html

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/army_paint.html

Hope this helps the insignia issues.

 

[MilitaryAircraft101]

Me, or the roundel surround is orange? Standing by.. Not really lol don't even think about it... But the P-38 sounds like an interesting subject ;D

 

[redraider56]

The blue on F-5s was called PRU Blue, a British color

 

[13aceofspades13]

well wouldn't that variant been used during Operation Torch... that was around that time period as you specified...

 

[f2k]

A thousand thanks, guys. This is a really interesting discusion.

ShutterAce, any chance of getting the name of that book? I've been through Amazon, looking for books on the Lightning, but I'm not entirely sure if any of them are any good.

Also, does anyone have the exact name of the colour used? I mean: in terms of current off-the-shelf model colours. The two planes in the picture above seems to be rather different colours. One very light blueish grey and one dark blue...