Pavesi P4-100 Gun tractor 2025-06

[Tommergun]

Rust it up Barley, we love rusty chipped military vehicles!

 

[BarleyBop]

rusty chipped military vehicles

Haha, and nothing like an old tractor rusting in a field!

 

[Jakko]

Just depends on how long it was in the field, given that it could have been oldish already since the Italians had been there for a while...

What, two to five years or so? I know Italian cars already rust in the brochure (that was the joke around here, anyway) but it seems rather soon for noticeable rust in a climate as dry as North Africa. The Horn of Africa has more wet weather than, say, the Sahara, of course, but even then, would there be much rust on vehicles that see a decent amount of maintenance?

I haven't read anything about performance of the paddles in sand: somehow I imagine it digging its way into a sand trap of its own making with these powered paddlewheels spinning in loose sand.

Chances are it would, yes. For loose sand you want as little profile as possible, I think, to avoid digging it away. Those paddles would probably be about the worst thing you could have.

 

[locomotive]

It looks more like some kind of padded material to me. The corrugations aren't very even, which makes me think it

I'd agree. Sausages of padding and leather? Wood or metal would be incredibly uncomfortable!

What, two to five years or so? I know Italian cars already rust in the brochure (that was the joke around here, anyway) but it seems rather soon for noticeable rust in a climate as dry as North Africa. The Horn of Africa has more wet weather than, say, the Sahara, of course, but even then, would there be much rust on vehicles that see a decent amount of maintenance?

Yes but sand would soon wear away the paint exposing it to a degree of corrosion. I'd have thought light surface rust though rather than extensive corrosion.

 

[Edbert]

The corrugations aren't very even, which makes me think it isn't metal, anyway, and like you say, wood would not bend that way.

Perhaps it was wicker? That was a popular material for centuries in furniture.

 

[BarleyBop]

@Jakko and @locomotive
...all good points.
There are just so many factors to consider, not least being that I have never actually been there!

From various accounts though, we know that locales varied considerably from Tunisia to Eritrea.
Factors include environmental ones such as distance from the humid salty air of the Med sea (which would accelerate rust) and winter rainfall which could exceed 300mm in coastal areas to the varying terrain - a small sampling of which includes :

• farm and vineyard land of the Italian colonists in Libya
• mountainous and semi arid areas
• coastal zones with vegetation
• the rough and gravelly 'reg' (most typical of the theater overall) with sharp stones which would cause a lot of chipping
• advancing dunes from the interior
• wadis (North-South gullies/valleys) that could be instantly transformed into muddy quagmires in a flash flood.

Then there is the obvious: it makes sense that a vehicle designed for a range of rough terrain (initially as an agricultural tractor) would have been deployed to areas that required its off-road capabilities.

As an interesting side note, Il Duce himself had taken an interest in the development of the Pavesi, and was disappointed that like my little Topolino, the production cost still demanded a considerable price tag.
Among many 'fascist' projects was one to reclaim and rehabilitate swamp land (the malaria infested Pontine Marshes), and resettle people from all over Italy.

 

[BarleyBop]

Perhaps it was wicker

It certainly looks like that doesn't it!
Apart from no obvious weave and the fact it would have had to be attached the metal seat frames...

 

[BarleyBop]

So the rubber hits the rim! The first one was eye-balled, but I want to ensure a minimum of consistency, even though the wheels aren't perfectly round.
Then I remember my line cutter with adjustable parallel blades which I'd used on Ruby and Amberlith film for graphic artwork... hadn't been used since 1992!

 

[BarleyBop]

Wagon wheels (rollin' rollin' rollin') wagon wheels
Keep on a-turnin' (turnin') wagon wheels
Roll along (rollin' rollin' rollin') sing your song
Carry me over the hill (carry me over the hill)

Amazing how the tread adds some logic to a tangled mess.
Hopefully, a bit more detailing will help disambiguate the 'spokes' even more....

 

[BarleyBop]

Have to say that I lucked out with this piece of foam (from a watch box)... it provides a gentle cushion for delicate protuberances, and gives a little while I work on the build.

Going to add some oil / grease stains while it is belly up.

 

[Tommergun]

Looking great.

 

[Edbert]

I use foam all the time. You can get it from all sorts of packaging as you said, but I eventually just bought some from a fabric store. They come in all sorts of softness/densities, I think softest available is what I wanted. You can buy a pillow-sized block for cheap and cut it into whatever size or shape you need. Often, with aircraft, two symmetrical blocks are all you need to hold the wings level and maybe (depending on subject) a smaller one for the tail.

 

[user 22148]

Looking fab it has to be said.

How did you go about applying the base colour - was it a rattle can or did you brush it on?

 

[BarleyBop]

base colour

This one 'evolved'.
- At first, I was priming af hoc areas with a brush and Stynylrez red brown.

• After assembly and surface reparations, once over with Mr.Mahogany Surfacer 1000
• thought I would try base colour Revell Sandy Yellow... but it was too gold for my liking
• after testing, a very thin brushing of visible areas with my own mix mostly Vallejo Dark Sand to reduce the gold and brighten it up
• then with AK light brown for desert yellow filter to settle it down, add depth, give it a hue closer to my other Italian vehicles

• tried out Tamitmya Dark Brown panel line accent
• undercarriage axles engine and transition boxes got smoked Vallejo

- the muffler got an unblended mix of Vallejo dry pigment, AK medium rust, Vallejo light rust wash and on the pipes, addition of a pinch of gunmetal blue.

Once the wheels are ready I'll have to decide on appropriate weathering, a bit of chipping, minimal mud splatter (because I'm a weather wuss), rain marks, and finally, if the modelcand i survive, a few highlights.

Oh, and I haven't thought of stowage, and have just started sculpting the putty filler on the recently re integrated driver!

 

[user 22148]

Thanks for writing that up - really appreciate it.

I've been trying to paint the interior of a K2/Y Ambulance this week (Brush with Vallejo paints) and man, having not painted anything with brushes for probably 7 months, I can't believe how much I've de-skilled. It looks like something a 5 year old would paint - so I'd thought I'd ask as you're about the only person I know who brushes 1/35 and yet still produces some really nice paintwork. I like the idea of using a similar colour primer/basecoat. I'd not considered that. Trying to paint a cream interior over light grey hasn't worked lol!

What sort of brushes to you favour?

Oh and as an aside, I've picked up a bit of light reading recently you might be interested in - The Battle for North Africa by W.G.E Jackson and the Desert War by Alan Moorehead.

 

[BarleyBop]

some really nice paintwork

Thanks! It is an ongoing process, and evolving all the time.

For larger areas, I've experimented with different brushes. My go-to now is a relatively cheap art store brush: it has sufficient width, and volume to deliver an appropriate amount of paint to the surface. It also seems to have a rather nice, rounded and feathered edge, which helps avoid hard streaks, and makes blending adjoining strokes easier.

Maybe my years in visual art school (painting) a lifetime ago twisted my mind, but I'm actually fond of handling a brush, at the bench or on canvas (which I haven't done since 1981), or painting the trim in the house.

If I tried to verbalize it, I'd say that I think of the brush carrying and releasing the paint on the surface, as opposed to 'pushing' it around.

Of course, just as important seems to be getting the paint to the right consistency... and I've found that adding a slow drying glazing liquid helps with the distribution and blending of adjacent strokes with my Vallejo, and a wet palette also helps keep the paint from drying out.

With AK, I prefer to use a ceramic palette, with the center bowl reserved for clean thinner that I can add to my brush, to keep the paint consistency where I want it. ( I have two, with one in the sink soaking to be easily wiped clean)

... hope my exposition was not too artsyfartsy!
But just like a musician might describe the 'feel' of their instrument, a painter gets to know and love the 'feel' of particular brushes, mediums and canvases, even the plastic ones!

 

[BarleyBop]

the Desert War by Alan Moorehead.

Yes, his trilogy is a brilliant read... inspired me to add these to my stash!

Have not read Jackson, so curious to hear what you think.
Have many other books on Mediterranean campaigns, armies and vehicles.

 

[user 22148]

Yes, his trilogy is a brilliant read... inspired me to add these to my stash!

View attachment 153472

Have not read Jackson, so curious to hear what you think.
Have many other books on Mediterranean campaigns, armies and vehicles.

That's a brilliant idea! I'd love to get one of those Humbers. Apparently the person who bought AA's kits has plans to produce them again soon.

I'll let you know what Jackson's book is like. I find it very interesting how little books there seem to be about the war in North Africa, and that two of the books that keep coming up in suggestions as being the best are rather old now.

 

[user 22148]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on painting - you've given me some good food for thought - I do have a wet palette but the use of glaze medium is a great idea.

I totally get what you are saying about the brush carrying the paint rather than moving it around. I do love brush painting, I find it rather relaxing. It's daft really, I used to be quite good at it but I just seem to have lost the knack of late. I even broke out my much neglected airbrush out today but all that did was re-enforce why I don't like using them.

Anyway, sorry to hi-jack your thread but the advice is really appreciated. Thanks again. I'll post up a thread on what I'm doing.

 

[BarleyBop]

suggestions

If you're really into it, Bagnold's is a must. Not ww2 per say, but an appreciation for the environment, and the genesis if the LRDG.

 

[BarleyBop]

person who bought AA's kits has plans to produce them again soon.

Did not know this. Coming back to modeling in 2014ish, I'd drool over all the softskin in their catalogue.
Got to be ready to work with resin though, which has it's own challenges.

 

[user 22148]

Did not know this. Coming back to modeling in 2014ish, I'd drool over all the softskin in their catalogue.
Got to be ready to work with resin though, which has it's own challenges.

Yes I'm not a huge fan of resin, but I suppose needs must sometimes - I'll have to give it a go.

They were bought by Newland Models - can't vouch for their service as I've never ordered from them, but they are still in production at least. https://www.newlandmodels.co.uk/

 

[user 22148]

If you're really into it, Bagnold's is a must. Not ww2 per say, but an appreciation for the environment, and the genesis if the LRDG.

View attachment 153490

I'll add it to my shopping list. Moorehead's descriptions of what life was actually like in the desert have been fascinating, so anything else on that subject would be really interesting.

 

[BarleyBop]

Moorehead's descriptions

I found it especially interesting to read his descriptions of Tommys, who'd come all the way from Egypt on strictly rationed water, bulleybeef and hard tack... only to overrun Italian camps to find fine parade dress, fine wines, bottled water, fruits, meat and vegetables!

 

[BarleyBop]

First of the wheels, guinea pig, with pin washes, scuffed and weathered rubber. Judging by tread depth, pretty new.

Those paddles def need at least some token chipping, just driving them out the factory testing grounds!

I'll start with doing same treatment on the other wheels before I forget!

 

[BarleyBop]

Haha, I was going to shoot a pic with the wheels and a figure for reference... the wheels not glued.

Then, framing the shot, I notice the driver box in the background almost in the right spot, so I raised it up and voila!

Them big wheels a turning...
Old Edmund is saying: "Shall I stand right here, blasted filthy, I say!"

 

[user 22148]

I found it especially interesting to read his descriptions of Tommys, who'd come all the way from Egypt on strictly rationed water, bulleybeef and hard tack... only to overrun Italian camps to find fine parade dress, fine wines, bottled water, fruits, meat and vegetables!

Agreed. The difference between the British trying to live with the desert, as opposed to the Italian trying to take command of it was fascinating. As was the 400 mile Italian fence that the Brit's just drove through - what nutter came up with that one!

It's looking fantastic - those wheels are awesome!

 

[BarleyBop]

those wheels are awesome

Ha, thanks.
The sand tire version was pretty awesome too!

 

[Edbert]

The sand tire version was pretty awesome too!

I know jack-crap about 20th century military tires used in North Africa.

But I have owned a 4x4 my entire adult life, the choice of brand and lug-design on the tires one chooses is up to "opinion" in most cases. But one master rule always wins...

Tall and narrow for rocks or shallow soil (on rocks), but wide and soft is what works in mud and sand, I'm 99% ready to say PERIOD.

My last 3 and current daily drivers had 35" BFG KO/KO2s, that large strong tire, with the wheel, weighs about 100 pounds of unsprung weight...on each corner.

 

[BarleyBop]

wide and soft

You can probably thank Ralph Bagnold for that, the founder of the Long Range Desert Group. He had famously explored the Libyan desert with Model Ts, in the 1930s, pioneering tires, techniques and desert navigation.