Panel line crisis!

[MrNatural]

So im trying to do the panel lines on my freshly painted destiny gundam. I airbrushed tamiya acrylics waited two days then i used tamiya acrylic flat black wash and did a couple lines. I then tried to remove the excess paint with a cotton swab and a dab of tamiya thinner but it just took the all the paint off down to the primer coat. Should i use a different type of paint or what? Please help!

 

[MrNatural]

and i dont have any of those fancy shmancy gundam markers and they dont sell them around here ???

 

[DreamKnight]

Did you coat the model with a gloss coat after you painted the model and before you did the panel lines?

 

[MrNatural]

yeah i clear coated before i did the panel lines

 

[DreamKnight]

Hmmmm it shouldn't do that but since the wash is acrylic, just try using water instead of the thinner to take out the excess (I usually just lick the cotton swab). The Tamiya thinner might be too strong and eating the coating and paint under. It shouldn't though. Did you let the clear coat dry for about 24 hours? 48 hours they say is the best but I only let it set for 24 hours but then I don't using thinner. I just use water. What kinda of clear coat are you using?

Normally I paint... let it dry for an hours or so (couple hours just to be sure) and clear coat the paint job and then let it sit for 24hours then I do the panel line wash (either with pastel/water mix or a oil/thinner mix).

 

[MrNatural]

I painted let dry 24 hours clear coated let dry 48 hours and the thinner ate the paint like nothing so im just going to re paint that part. I try using some black acrylic artist paint thinned with water and had better results but it was harder to get the paint to flow

 

[DreamKnight]

Hmmm that's that's odd. it should be eating it like that unless you really dabbed on a lot of thinner on the swab and kept rubbing in the same places (it will take off the coat and paint after a while). Maybe it's just that Tamiya wash you're using? I've never used that stuff before. lol

 

[MrNatural]

its just flat black tamiya acrylic thinned down to a wash. i dont know. maybe i was to aggressive with the swab. i heard somewhere that lighter fluid works well but i dont know ever hear of anything like that

 

[DreamKnight]

Yeh lighter fluid works as a thinner Tried it one but it's just like using thinner... just smells as bad and just as flammable. lol

The only time I use thinners is to clean paint off or to thin down oil paints. I just stick with acrylics all through even for coats; Future for gloss, Galeria Acrylic Medium Matt Varnish for flat, and just thin down future with alcohol for semi gloss. I thin my paint for airbrushing with alchohol.

It's just so much cleaner and easier that way.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

If your base coat and gloss over your base is an acrylic, then your wash should be an enamel or oil based, not acrylic. Doesn't really matter how long it drys, if you put an acrylic thinner/wash over another acrylic layer, it is going to eat through it, especially if you are rubbing it off with a q-tip.

You could try, acrylic paint, enamel gloss, and then acrylic wash. But your layers should be opposite mediums to avoid stuff like this.

 

[Grendels]

When I built my last model, I used acrylics for the base coat, and then oil based paints for the panel wash. This was the first time I had done either. Years past, I did everything with enamels, which have changed up too much for my taste.

Oil paints take days to dry. But to me that is an advantage. When I made a mistake, I just wiped it off with a soft rag, and started over. Even better, since the base coat was acrylic, the oil paints didn't touch it at all. I think this is why some people put a coat of Future floor wax on before weathering. It acts like a protective layer over your base coat.

 

[MrNatural]

thanks for the advice it totally makes sence to me now

 

[sunsanvil]

The conventional wisdom is indeed to "alternate" the acrylics and oils, and that is probably the easiest, but I will share my experience with going "all acrylic".

A few years ago when getting back into the hobby I invested heavily (or at least what is for me heavily) in Vallejo arcylics, initially the ModelColor line but more recently I'm buying mostly the ModelAir. I didn't really want to diversify into a bunch of oils just for doing washes (and I try to stay away from the solvents in general) so I set about figuring out how to "make it work" with what I had.

The formula I've come up with is about half paint, half Vallejo's "Glaze Medium" (just a little more medium than paint), and just a bit of water.

The Glaze Medium is the key as in addition to being a thinner of sorts it does a couple extra things: unlike water or booze, it makes for a homogeneous mixture (no nasty tide marks, just nice soft edges) and its also a wicked retarder. Even though it might still skin over quickly, the paint does not cure for a long time (I once screwed up when doing a based coat and used it in place of Vallejo thinner since the bottles at the time were identical.....the day after I was able to wipe it all off with a damp paper towel!). Point being it makes the wash reasonably easy to clean up with a wet q-tip as long as you are working over a nice even coat of gloss varnish. The bit of water gives it that little extra "slide" you want for it to wick into cracks and panel lines (too much water though will cause it to slide too much and you end up with it pooling at one end or the other, or worse, tide marks).

Sometimes, especially if the gloss coat was not nice and even, or fully cured, it will be necessary to use some alcohol on the q-tip for clean up. This will not damage the underlying acrylic if you work LIGHTLY (dont "scrub"!). If you overdo it and eat into the gloss a little, don't panic: the dull coat to follow will pretty much erase that. If you really overdo it though, yes you will eat through to the paint underneath and start crying because you now have to sand it all down and start over....or earmark that section for some heavy paint chipping/weathering....either way.

 

[Jeep]

Another alternative is to use the Citadel Washed available through Games Workshop. Tamiya paints are ethanol based Acyrlics, GW (citadel) paints and washed are water based Acrylics. They will coat each other with out the risk of a aggressive thinner softening they underling layers of paint.

 

[sunsanvil]

GW (citadel) paints and washed are water based Acrylics.

Ditto for Vallejo, who recently came out with an expanded line of washes (which like almost all their stuff is totally water based). Before that they had a line of "inks" (basically the same thing) under their GameColor lable which I've used as well.

The key always though is a good SMOOTH gloss coat. If not, an acrylic wash, even one with no solvent, will get too much "bite" and be difficult to clean up without resorting at least in spots to a mild 70% booze.

 

[Jeep]

Forgot to mention to Vallejo! the advantage of P3 and Vallejo over GM's Citadel line of acyrlics have a "dryer" in them that reduces working time for speed and the former do not. As always picking your tool is important as how you use it sometimes.