If I may risk an unpopular opinion

[Swanningabout]

I truly detest link and length tracks. At least, on small scale models. I do not care about track sag. I love the simplicity of vinyl tracks. Tamiya's are the best I have encountered. If any model kit designers are listening, realize that young modellers (of which I used to be one) could well be turned off the hobby by the clumsiness and absurdity of link and length tracks. I know the very good modellers like them, but I am not by a long shot a very good modeller. And very few start out as very good modellers.

 

[Unreality]

You make a good point. While I prefer either link and length or indy links, I would rather not pay more for a kit that comes with only a decent set if I could use that money for a better set. It would be easier and cheaper if companies just included the vinyls and cheaper price...then I could use the extra money to get an aftermarket set if I really wanted it. Once you hit 1/72, I would always choose rubber-band style...it's just easier. And with the DS tracks from Dragon, you can replicate sag a little easier...or not, your choice.

On the other hand, I used to hate the magic tracks from Dragon until I tried a few different techniques with them...like a slower cement. At 1/48, I'll take link and length and maybe vinyl for certain vehicles.

But this is one of the many problems manufacturers face. They're main audience is the pro's that want the extra detail, but they can't attract new customers without some "easier assemblies". And then people will complain about too much PE or too little PE or why isn't the barrel aluminum, etc. Not to take away from you're saying...but they do have a fine line to walk in the model world.

 

[Swanningabout]

An interesting thing I always notice in the hobby magazines is the outstanding quality of the builds demonstrated there. I suppose in a way this only makes sense, because who wants to look at pictures of badly built models? And yet, from my own point of view, I do think sometimes they need to simplify things a bit. The people who contribute to these magazines have ideas of a "simple" or "quick" build that far outstrip how I would use those terms. Can I be the only one who builds to such a basic level? Is it possible there are a lot more like me who do not speak up? I often suspect the industry is leaving behind those like myself whose standards are not very ambitious.

 

[Chiefpettyofficer]

I dont know, how you define "a basic Level". For me, the basic level is the model glued together, no part missing and it stands on your table without collapsing. If you made it to this level, you are very good. All modellers work on this level. Painting, Weathering, Drybrushing etc. are only a question of exercies. Nothing more, nothing less. OK, some of these techniques need to be practised ;D

Regarding the magazines, you are right. They need good pictures of nice built models. But there some different kinds of articles (I only can talk about German Magazines). While some of the builts including PE and resin parts, others are straigt OOB (out of the box). There is a small box at each article which describes the used parts or sets.


If you dont like to match with PE or magic tracks, you should buy Kits without them. I recommend Revell 1/76s, and Revell 1:35s. At most of the hobby-shops its allowed to open the box and view the content parts. You should ask "ELM City Hobbies" about easy kits, too. Im sure he can advise you very well

 

[spud]

the best tracks are the Dragon DS tracks they glue much better than the Tamiya ones, im not a fan of the link and length because they don't go around the sprocket proper.

first time i Tried metal tracks i was Sold sure its more costly but in the end i have more fun on my build

 

[pingvuiini]

Coming back to scale modeling after a couple of decades out, I'm just curious if there might be a third party manufacturer of one piece vinyl tracks out there?? Could be an interesting niche market!

 

[Bullet21]

Interesting topic.
I myself prefer indy link tracks, with Friulmodels being my favourite, but before I got to the point of being able to afford these I would struggle with 1 piece vinyl tracks over link & length.
The detail on l&l is very nice but alot of the newer kits are coming out with some very nicely detailed 1 piece tracks and I learned a few tricks to help make them look good. Some say that would involve too much extra work but I find that assembling & painting a set of Friulies isn't exactly a quick or easy task either.
I would think that churning out the 1 piece vinyl tracks can't really be that expensive so why don't they include a set of these with every kit, along with the premium indy link or l & l sets? That way everyone can be happy and not get discouraged by overwhelming complexity.
I keep all the track sets that come with the kits and watch for posts in the forums where someone doesn't like what came with thier kit ( I've found some that came with L & L tracks only) and give them away.

 

[schweinhund227]

Coming back to scale modeling after a couple of decades out, I'm just curious if there might be a third party manufacturer of one piece vinyl tracks out there?? Could be an interesting niche market!

@pingvuiini

AFV Club, sells After market rubber band style tracks for some of their kits .... And can also be fitted to other brands if needs be! They have a few sacrificial lengths that can be cut away to fit your model!

Usually they are upgrades from what's in "their" box, to keep their kits a little more current!
They have also released Link & Lengths sets. And Indy sets as well! Made of styrene!

people's with difficulties with links tracks are going too fast "usually"! Metsl tracks are nice but are for people made of money! take your time with the indy tracks and don't use C.A.

Remember a slow setting cement like "Thin cement" from Tamiya! is best for those tracks.... It gives you time to assemble and later move little sections of them into shape.... Without stiking to the Idlers or sprockets! It leaves no residue and the work time is very reasonable! Tamiya and Dragon have released with some of their best kits an Alignment tool to help Modeler's to put those together! it's made of a flexible Blue Plastic.... The tool can be adapted to other tanks

Just give them a second chance ! And build on your patience with them! You won't regret not having to spend another 45$ on after market tracks!

Bronco models has also released Indy tracks that move! Even lesser glue is needed to get Aweome results!
But demand even more time to assemble?

All the best to ya! Don't despair! Patience is a virtue !

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

You can also check out some of the track sets coming out from Trumpeter. I have a set for the BTR 50/PT-76, as well as the E-100/E-100 Jagdpanzer. And although they come with a crap load of parts, they do build up into some very nice workable tracks, and for about 2/3 the cost of a set of Friulis.

 

[Unreality]

Are the Trumpeter track sets affected by enamel washes like modelkasten?

 

[Junkie]

It's one of those things man. If you like vinyl, great. If you like L&L, great. If you like Friul, great.

It's a hobby. Have fun.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Are the Trumpeter track sets affected by enamel washes like modelkasten?

It's not so much the tracks that are effected, but the cement you use to assemble them, the enamel wash will weaken the bond the cement does to the parts. Had this happen on a kit I was building....had nothing to do with tracks as it was an 8 wheel LAV, using an enamel filter on it, flooding it on fairly well and the suspension I was holding on to came apart at the joints because the enamel filter broke down the cement bond.

Just have to be careful not to flood them too much.

 

[Unreality]

That's kinda what I was thinking was going on. Still strange that I've never had that happen with anything else I've cemented. Maybe it's the micro-sized surface area for the cement to bond to. Those pins are rather small. Thanks.

 

[spud]

ive had that happen to my Panther where the wash weakened the plastic and the suspension arms broke off, lesson Learnt that day

 

[Swanningabout]

I built a Soviet T-26 that had the same problem. It was almost comical. Just as I thought I had re-cemented a part that came off, another would disassemble itself. I did get it together, however, and the kit turned out pretty well.

 

[fblanton]

Good discussion here. Swanningabout your point on tracks is not unpopular. Everyone likes something different. Gladly the market has responded with multiple choices. Me I prefer vinyl for those small Panzer I & II and for any Sherman up to the E8. For the larger German stuff Modelkasten are great particularly when on sale. I have used the Fruil but for me the price is too steep and one must secure the Drive sprockets and idlers as the weight can cause those wheels to toe out. Go with what you are comfortable with and have fun. Oh and complete your build!

 

[ScaleModelMadman]

I use all three, depending on the particular build. Individual link tracks, link and length tracks and even 'rubber band' tracks. They all have their pros and cons really.

An interesting thing I always notice in the hobby magazines is the outstanding quality of the builds demonstrated there. I suppose in a way this only makes sense, because who wants to look at pictures of badly built models? And yet, from my own point of view, I do think sometimes they need to simplify things a bit. The people who contribute to these magazines have ideas of a "simple" or "quick" build that far outstrip how I would use those terms. Can I be the only one who builds to such a basic level? Is it possible there are a lot more like me who do not speak up? I often suspect the industry is leaving behind those like myself whose standards are not very ambitious.

It's not only would people look at a magazine of badly built models, but would they pay for it? Magazines are a costly business. It would be like using extremely overweight grannies to sell Victoria's Secret, or have an issue of Hot Rod Magazine dedicated to completely stock family sedans.

I think there are still many kits designed for the modeler who just wants to crack open a box, glue it up in a weekend and paint it strictly for fun. Those aren't the more modern kits for sure, as those are definitely aimed at the more 'advanced' builder but the market still holds those easier kits, you just may have to look harder. I'm pretty sure just about any Tamiya armor kit comes with rubber bands and they are all pretty easy builds compared to Bronco/AFV/Dragon etc.

*

As far as mineral spirits attacking plastic, no way. I took a bit of sprue and placed it in a jar of mineral spirits while I worked at the bench, it came out just as it went in, absolutely no effect.

It will attack the glue though and while it may be due in part to the small joins, I think it many cases when it comes to tracks, it's that the primer and paint didn't get into all those tiny recesses. If the acrylic primer/paint coats completely seal in the glue, it wont be effected by mineral spirit type washes. If there are any areas where the primer/paint didn't cover, it will take no time at all to attack the glued joint.