Airbrush Paints

[hooterville75]

Has anyone ever tried to use one of the cheaper paints such as Auto Air, Createx, Liquitex, etc ? Basically any of the cheap paints you can easily purchase for a buck a bottle ? I see the Createx paint and Auto Air paint all the time at very cheap prices, but something tells me you cant use those paints on Plastic models as you never see anyone recomending these brands of paint. Thanks in advance for any input about either of these three paints. Auto Air and Createx are my main two Im wondering about. Not a big fan of decanting which would need done for the Liquitex paints but hey if this brand of paint will work in the airbrush Im game because as of now Im not a real big fan of thinning paint lol.

 

[Gundamhead]

They work, but the adhesion isn't as strong. So if you need to tape over something you painted, you may peel it up.

Why are you decanting? Just buy some basic colors and mix your own shades if you don't want to spring for a particular color. It's easier than decanting all the time by far.

Nice demonstration of the 3 colors becoming 6 becoming 12 becoming 24 becoming 48....

http://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/basic-color-theory

Now just add black for shade and white for tint.

http://www.weborum.com/color/wheel.html


As to thinning, it's really easy, and very much needed in 98% of the time you're painting with brush or airbrush. Thinning lets your paint flow and level out better. Not thinnning is kinda like trying to glue without getting glue on the model, you just have to. ;D

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

They work, but the adhesion isn't as strong. So if you need to tape over something you painted, you may peel it up.

Why are you decanting? Just buy some basic colors and mix your own shades if you don't want to spring for a particular color. It's easier than decanting all the time by far.

Nice demonstration of the 3 colors becoming 6 becoming 12 becoming 24 becoming 48....

http://www.colormatters.com/color-and-design/basic-color-theory

Now just add black for shade and white for tint.

http://www.weborum.com/color/wheel.html


As to thinning, it's really easy, and very much needed in 98% of the time you're painting with brush or airbrush. Thinning lets your paint flow and level out better. Not thinnning is kinda like trying to glue without getting glue on the model, you just have to. ;D

Not necessarily true, if he went with something like Vallejo Primers and Vallejo Model Air paint....no thinning at all needed.

Hooterville, I think even those paints you mentioned need thinning, unless they are not the paints I am thinking of. I can also say I have never seen them for $1 a bottle, for the most part they are name brand paints, and usually go for quite a bit more than that, I know what little colors Michaels here carries, they are more in the range of $10-$12/bottle, mind you they are usually a 6-8oz bottle as well.

People use them in various painting, from painting 1:1 cars, trucks and motorcycles, to guitars, helmets, etc, etc. If you were to use them, I wouldn't spray them over bare plastic...give your kit a nice primer coat and let it cure fully, and you can put just about any brand of paint over them.

I of course will always push the Vallejo brand of paints.

 

[Gundamhead]

The Apple stuff does need to be thinned was my initial point. So buying them to not have to thin won't work.

Vallejo AB stuff. Badger AB stuff. I dunno. I never used them. I feel it's a marketing gimmick and all I'm getting is the watered down version for the same price as their base colors. And even then, you'll still have to set your airbrush to the paints requirements instead of the paint to your requiremnet. Setting limits to yourself seems kinda odd in a hobby that let's you do anything you want to create.

Seems kinda silly to 'fear' or hate thinning and only limit yourself to a tiny sampling of paints though. Just do it as the Nike ads said millenia ago.

Grab a junk kit or toy, preferably made of styrene, and just blast and brush different paint until you find something you like.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Vallejo AB stuff. Badger AB stuff. I dunno. I never used them. I feel it's a marketing gimmick and all I'm getting is the watered down version for the same price as their base colors. And even then, you'll still have to set your airbrush to the paints requirements instead of the paint to your requirement. Setting limits to yourself seems kinda odd in a hobby that let's you do anything you want to create.

Like you said, you have never used them, so I guess you can't really give an opinion on how they work.

Watered down versions of the regular paints....well considering Badger doesn't have a "regular" version of their paint, and that most of the colors in the Vallejo Model Air line are exclusive to the Model Air line, there isn't anything "regular" to compare them to.

Think of it like this....some people mix their own washes, some people buy ready made ones for a matter of convenience, and it is no different with the Model Air....a matter of convenience to have something pre-thinned, ready to go out of the bottle.

As far as setting your airbrush up to the paint's requirements? Not sure where you are getting that from, the paint sprays very nicely with no setting up of the airbrush, other than maybe one's airpressure, which you have to do with paint you thin yourself, depending on how you are painting, and how thick or thin you mix your paint. No different here.

 

[fumblethumbs]

Hey hooterville, I've never used the specific brands of paints you mentioned but if you can purchase them for a buck, maybe you should grab a bottle or two and try em. Try em on some scrap styrene or an old beater kit as Gundamhead suggests. You may strike out and be down a couple dollars but you may hit on a winner and end up saving a bundle! I have used the thick craft type paint. A two ounce bottle is around one dollar. They also sell their own thinner for the same price. Fair results with these products. Great results can be achieved by adding a retarder, a hardener and a flow enhancer. Takes some time to figure it out and mix it up, but quite an economical way to go for certain painting tasks! Just because it's not recomended hooterville, doesn't mean it's no good. I'd say give it a shot, play around with it and have some fun!

I'll comment on the Vallejo and Badger air lines. I've tried both and they work very, very well.

 

[TBadger]

If its what I think you're talking about and it's the small acrylic "craft" paints like FolkArt and the one Liquitex makes you can pick up for $1 or less at Michaels and WalMart, be prepared to thin it/strain it/ adjust it/ strain it some more.....I Even picked up Createx Airbrush ready stuff and it needed to be thinned as well. Most paints you pick up from the craft stores or from hobby lobby are made for brush painting and the pigments are really gritty. I would splurge the extra 1.50 on Tamiya and Vallejo brands just because of compatibility. Thinning is also the name of the game too, to make ratios more even and reliable just pick up a huge lot of laboratory pipettes from SKS bottle. It's about $30 for 750 or 500 I think. Plus they're reusable if you feel like washing them. I avoided it for as long as I could but on e you work with the higher quality paints, you'll never look back.

 

[hooterville75]

Vallejo is my first choice because I'm told you can squirt in the cup, stir and shoot. Im a huge fan of that. Tamiya is my second choice. I have Vallejo as my first choice because no thinning needed, however, I think working on this paint thinning is going to be a exciting challenge. I just get very frustrated when I mix paint and it doesnt work properly. Then I stop and think, ok lets analyze this. Your airbrush is an Aztek propellent system. What when you get a "real" airbrush which is on its way from out west ;D and its a entire different practice with the paint thinning. So Im giving it a complete different outlook and trying things when I receive the new airbrush.

If I end up liking the paint thinning deal, it almost seems to me that with a bottle of Tamiya if thinned properly, you should be able to obtain two entire bottles for the price of one mixing half and half.

In regards to the Michaels and Walmart paint, their is about two or three different brands of paint Scott, that I can get for a Buck or less. Primer wise, I ALWAYS primer my models. Speaking of primering a model (Sorry about the novel ha ha). I used a gray primer on the model Im currently working on and am painting a Bill Elliot #94 McDonalds Nascar 1/25 model. The color of the body is Red. Im on my second coat of Dark Red by Testors in the 1/4 oz bottle. The first coat of Red, when finished lightly covering the body the color was actually more of a maroon. I hit it again now with the second coat of Red and its a little darker but its still a maroonish. The rest of the other parts and chassis that I painted with the same Red are perfectly fine. It confuses me a bit.

 

[Gundamhead]

Vallejo is my first choice because I'm told you can squirt in the cup, stir and shoot. Im a huge fan of that. Tamiya is my second choice. I have Vallejo as my first choice because no thinning needed, however, I think working on this paint thinning is going to be a exciting challenge. I just get very frustrated when I mix paint and it doesnt work properly. Then I stop and think, ok lets analyze this. Your airbrush is an Aztek propellent system. What when you get a "real" airbrush which is on its way from out west ;D and its a entire different practice with the paint thinning. So Im giving it a complete different outlook and trying things when I receive the new airbrush.

If I end up liking the paint thinning deal, it almost seems to me that with a bottle of Tamiya if thinned properly, you should be able to obtain two entire bottles for the price of one mixing half and half.

In regards to the Michaels and Walmart paint, their is about two or three different brands of paint Scott, that I can get for a Buck or less. Primer wise, I ALWAYS primer my models. Speaking of primering a model (Sorry about the novel ha ha). I used a gray primer on the model Im currently working on and am painting a Bill Elliot #94 McDonalds Nascar 1/25 model. The color of the body is Red. Im on my second coat of Dark Red by Testors in the 1/4 oz bottle. The first coat of Red, when finished lightly covering the body the color was actually more of a maroon. I hit it again now with the second coat of Red and its a little darker but its still a maroonish. The rest of the other parts and chassis that I painted with the same Red are perfectly fine. It confuses me a bit.

Hmmm. Alright basics.

A whole little enamel 1/4 oz bottle of Testors ought to cover 3 or 4 1/24 cars.

1. Mix that little bottle properly. Shake the beejeezus out of it. Shake it some more. Stick a stick in it and pull up the goop and mix it more. That goop is important. It's the settled pigments. Mix it all very well. It's gonna raise your heart rate if you do it right.

2. When you want a bright primary color, base coat (primer) with white. Grey, especially the darker shades are very hard to cover with a primary color.

3. Whatever you use for an air source doesn't matter as long as you can regulate it to your needs. If you can't you need to thin, which you need to do 98% of the time anyway. Old tire, can of Propel, air compressor, nitrogen tank, air tank whatever. If it can atomize the paint and spit it out the needle of the brush, you're good.

4. That stirred and shaken 1/4 oz. bottle of red put about 1/4 of it in your airbrush and add just about the same amount of laquer thinner. Mix that well. You ought to be able to get a decent spray pattern. It should be smooth and even and WON'T cover over whatever you're painting completely. It ought to be a little translucent. Your're all but perfect.

5. Take that white base car body and give it an even light translucent coat. Give it about 15 minutes and hit all again while keeping all the mixed red mixed. (Just a swirl or two is all it will really need) By the 3rd coat you ought to have a nice smooth bright deep red paint job.

6. Set it aside and let it dry for a day. Testors gloss tends to be slow drying.

 

[Gundamhead]

Vallejo AB stuff. Badger AB stuff. I dunno. I never used them. I feel it's a marketing gimmick and all I'm getting is the watered down version for the same price as their base colors. And even then, you'll still have to set your airbrush to the paints requirements instead of the paint to your requirement. Setting limits to yourself seems kinda odd in a hobby that let's you do anything you want to create.

Like you said, you have never used them, so I guess you can't really give an opinion on how they work.

Watered down versions of the regular paints....well considering Badger doesn't have a "regular" version of their paint, and that most of the colors in the Vallejo Model Air line are exclusive to the Model Air line, there isn't anything "regular" to compare them to.

Think of it like this....some people mix their own washes, some people buy ready made ones for a matter of convenience, and it is no different with the Model Air....a matter of convenience to have something pre-thinned, ready to go out of the bottle.

As far as setting your airbrush up to the paint's requirements? Not sure where you are getting that from, the paint sprays very nicely with no setting up of the airbrush, other than maybe one's airpressure, which you have to do with paint you thin yourself, depending on how you are painting, and how thick or thin you mix your paint. No different here.

Vallejo makes excellent basic colors that are not pre-thinned for the airbrush. Thinning those is as easy as adding water and a drop of Windex. I didn't give an opinion on how they worked because I don't use them like I said. I'm sure they are fine and I have been tempted at trying them, but they're the same price, so I feel like I am being cheated because thinning to suit my needs is no big deal. To me same price and size bottle for watered down paint. Not an opinion on their performance.

I mentioned the Badger stuff because you mentioned ready to airbrush paints. I have used it, and didn't care much for it. There's better and there's worse.

Setting the airbrush air pressure is exactly what I was talking about. To get a good result an Aztec is going to use a different PSI than a Iwata or Krome. The same way a gravity feed is going to use a different PSI over a siphon feed for the same result. It's just easier in the long run to learn how to thin paint.

 

[Gundamhead]

Anyway, Vallejo is an excellent choice to paint with. ;D

 

[hooterville75]

Gundhamhead, thanks for all the info. Im going back after Im done replying to your messages to take notes. My excel notebook on Modeling is getting very thick real quick. Im big on formulas and equations so once I get this paint thinning down to a T I may study and learn the formula and process of mixing my own paints. I believe Dr. Cranky mixes his own. Learning the methods and formulas to mix your own paint has to have its benefits. You will probably be able to mix so many bottles out of one batch of ingredients for XXXX amount of dollars breaking it down to XXX amount per bottle.

Now that I have a "real" airbrush on its way to me, Im so excited about this all you have no clue. I have a pretty extensive stash of Nascar, Indy and Sprint Car (All racing series) models as well as a couple of classic cars to build. After I receive the airbrush, Im going to be branching out into Aircraft and Tanks. I believe after I finish the current Nascar Im currently building, Im going to concentrate on learning the airbrush techniques as well as thinning paint to where I can get decent with an airbrush and hit the aircraft and tanks hard. Im a big World War enthusiast so Im going to concentrate on aircraft of both World Wars. This hobby seems like it could be never ending as their are so many types of models that have gained my interest.

Im just sitting back taking all the info I can in to enhance my ability to build hoping someday I can acquire the level of talents you guys have and be able to offer my tips and knowledge to other like me now "Newbies" lol helping them enhance their talents as well.

Im going to start off with Vallejo but hopefully branch out to Tamiya where I feel paint could be even cheaper cause like I said, taking a bottle of Tamiya, thinning it to the proper consistency has to give you two bottles of airbrush ready Tamiya paint verses one bottle of spray ready Vallejo for the same price.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Vallejo is my first choice because I'm told you can squirt in the cup, stir and shoot.

Hooter.....this is only true of the Vallejo Model Air paints. The Model Color paints need to be thinned, however with their new formulated thinner, it is as simple as 2 drops of thinner and one drop of paint. Stir and shoot.

Easy Peasy, Lemon Squizzy!

 

[hooterville75]

Vallejo is my first choice because I'm told you can squirt in the cup, stir and shoot.

Hooter.....this is only true of the Vallejo Model Air paints. The Model Color paints need to be thinned, however with their new formulated thinner, it is as simple as 2 drops of thinner and one drop of paint. Stir and shoot.

Easy Peasy, Lemon Squizzy!

Thumbs up all the way around hahaha. The airbrush I just got is gravity fed so Im hoping that the paint thinning ratios in the Patriot verses the Aztek Propellent I use now HAS to be night and day difference. Whats got me confused about thinning paint is this. The VERY FIRST time I ever thinned a bottle of Testors Enamel Rogue Dark Red, I hit it point blank perfect on the head. Thats when I said the other day that Im on my second bottle of the Rogue Dark Red. When I read, two parts thinner to one part paint. I took my pipette and put said amount of paint into the jar. I then in turn took the same pipette after cleaning and got two more pipettes of thinner to the same line I took the paint and put in the jar and mixed. It appeard to be way too thin to the consistency of milk. I then took more paint and put in stirring till I received the consistency I assumed was milk. It worked great.

I do the same procedure the next time I put more coats of paint on the model and the brush wouldnt even spray paint. Entirely air. I thinned some more assuming it was too thick because it wouldnt spray. Same thing. I put more thinner in to where it was totally runny way beyond the consistency of Milk. It squirted a bit and then started throwing paint a bit but not like it should have been. I check the settings on the brush to make sure I have the same spray pattern I did the prior time it worked great. Everything was perfect. I took it apart and cleaned the brush including the nozzle. Sprayed a bit more and continued spitting paint but not like it should. All the sudden it starts spraying tip top perfectly and sprayed perfectly the rest of the time I painted. Was totally weird.

Once again a learning experience that just confused me lol. I chalked it up to a horrible airbrush setup, cursed it out a bit and shook my head in hopes the new airbrush arrives asap lol. Im willing to learn this hobby entirely I just have to put my short patience on the back burner and remember that Im just a rookie and keep on plugging.

 

[Dusky]

Many of the paints in the Model Colour line should not be airbrushed due to the fact they use heavy metals for the pigments, such as cadmium, cobalt, etc. The bottles indicate on them if they contain any heavy metals and if so they should not be airbrushed. The Model Air line is free of any heavy metal pigments and I believe the Game Colour line is as well.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Many of the paints in the Model Colour line should not be airbrushed due to the fact they use heavy metals for the pigments, such as cadmium, cobalt, etc. The bottles indicate on them if they contain any heavy metals and if so they should not be airbrushed. The Model Air line is free of any heavy metal pigments and I believe the Game Colour line is as well.

While this is true, the bottles do have those warnings on them, Vallejo is required to do so because it does have those materials in them, however having spoken to Alex Vallejo about this, I was told that there is such a small amount in them, that they would do no harm. He gave me the adage that went something like this:

While by law, because those materials are in the paint, we have to provide a warning on the bottle to indicate it, however, you would have to eat, live and breath it, while swimming in a big vat of the stuff for about a month to do any long term damage.

In other words, there is just enough in it that they need to put a warning on the label, but not enough in it to do any harm to you or anyone in your house if you spray it. Of course you should always wear a respirator any time you are spraying any kind of paint, and it is preferable if you are also spraying into an air booth that can evacuate the excess paint spray, or spray outside.


Hooter, keep in mind that not all paints will thin with the same ratio, the formula I gave you is only if you are using the Vallejo AB Thinner to thin their Model Color paints.

Tamiya paints, you would thin 50/50 with their thinner (1 to 1)

Been so long since I have used Testors enamels I forget what the formula is....but I think 50/50 as well, but don't take my word on it as it has been quite some time since I have used anything enamel.

 

[steezy]

Get an electric paint mixer, it's worth every penny. I find I can't mix most paints well enough by hand. If your paint isn't mixed properly, you can end up with a bumpy paint surface.

For thinning I use isopropyl alcohol with acrylic paints. It works like Mr. Hobby's leveling thinner and will spread the paint out more freely, and it will dry quickly. I usually thin paint at a 3 to 1 ratio to thinner, but that also changes for different paints and what I'm doing. At a lower PSI the ratio is close to 2 to 1.

 

[Dusky]

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/security
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11177195

You really don't want to spray a paint with cadmium in it. Once you atomize it you will be getting it everywhere, though you won't be able to see it. You will be microscopically depositing cadmium all over your spray booth and it won't degrade over time. While the level of cadmium is said to be safe by Vallejo and likely is, you really don't want any cadmium intake. It also won't be the only source of cadmium. You ingest cadmium from the foods you eat. Cadmium accumulates in the body and is not biodegradable. Your body can only excrete a tiny amount of it. Not to mention the fact that cadmium is more toxic than lead and mercury. You wouldn't need a big vat of it. You'd need just over 50mcg.

I'm not telling you to don't use paints with heavy metal pigments in them. I'm only saying you shouldn't spray them. There is a reason the Vallejo Model Air line is formulated without heavy metal pigments.

 

[Gundamhead]

I'd say your lawn is more cadmium toxic than any vallejo paint is.

 

[Neo]

Theres so many types of paints that are different that one must find somethin he likes!

Im an Enamel guy i stick to Humbrol and some ModelMaster thining can be tricky at first but you get the hang of it. Also you can play with the effects with thicker or thinner paint.

Other paint you may use on plastic is Krylon but you will have to decant it