P-47 Thunderbolt research help

[ohbejuan]

Hello,

I have not been too rigorous about doing research and finding reference photos, mostly content to use reference information from the kit manufacturer. I suspect I might be in the minority in that way .
So, I was chatting with my sister's partner, and she said she had a relative that flew in World War II, in a P-47 Thunderbolt. I am now curious about building this plane for her.
She sent me this link. It has a good photo in it where I can see the markings. and the invasion strips.
https://mymemorialday.org/remember/hamilton.php

My question is... what are some good resources for finding reference photos and more information? I did some rudimentary Google searches and did not find much additional information.

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[Down Time]

Have you tried contacting the Eighth Airforce Museum in Georgia?

 

[ohbejuan]

Have you tried contacting the Eighth Airforce Museum in Georgia?

No! I will follow up on that.

 

[Down Time]

Tail number?

 

[Down Time]

www.archives.gov/ research/military/ww2

 

[ohbejuan]

Tail number?

I will try to find out!

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

You're not going to find aftermarket decals for that particular P-47 Thunderbolt scheme. Your best bet is make your own decals or find someone who does custom decals.

 

[urumomo]

https://www.bedlamcreations.com/custom-waterslide-decals/custom-model-plane-waterslide-decals/

 

[ohbejuan]

Thanks to everyone for the help so far! My friend is "up north" in Michigan for the summer and says she has more photos at home in North Carolina. So I hope to get the squadron and tail number in a few weeks.

 

[airdave]

[Report - 8041 366th FS [IA-Z], 358th FG, 9th AF, High Halden, Station 411; "Mrs. Ham" / "Lil' Ham 3";
Shot down by Fw 190A-8 flown by unknown pilot and unit crashing on a wooded hill in Bérou-la-Mulotière,
France July 14, 1944; MACR 6878. Pilot killed ]

366th FS 358th FG
P47D-2-RE serial 42-8041

Augustus Hamilton died July 14 1944 over Berou-la-Mulotiere (France, I assume)
Some info here (although the aircraft info is not completely accurate):
https://www.database-memoire.eu/pri...ille-h-us/617-hamilton-gus-jr-366-fs-358-fg-u

I think I only do one aircraft (paper model) from that fighter group, and that's TarHeel Hal (shown below).
So I assume your Lil' Ham 3 might have the orange tail like Tarheel Hal, but I have no idea what any other forward paint might be.
(Until we find a better photo)
Keep in mind, Tarheel Hal (as shown) is a bubbletop (later D model), whereas Lil Ham is an early "razorback" style of P47.
And Lil Ham is obviously painted green, not bare metal.

I would be interested in seeing those photos, because I can add LIl Ham to my catalog.

 

[Edbert]

Found a better picture of Augustus, not much else.

The site also shows the museum display.

https://www.julianwhite.uk/2022-us-...eans-wreckage-of-augustus-hamiltons-aircraft/

 

[ohbejuan]

Found a better picture of Augustus, not much else.

View attachment 125647

The site also shows the museum display.

https://www.julianwhite.uk/2022-us-...eans-wreckage-of-augustus-hamiltons-aircraft/

thank you so much!

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

View attachment 125598
[Report - 8041 366th FS [IA-Z], 358th FG, 9th AF, High Halden, Station 411; "Mrs. Ham" / "Lil' Ham 3";
Shot down by Fw 190A-8 flown by unknown pilot and unit crashing on a wooded hill in Bérou-la-Mulotière,
France July 14, 1944; MACR 6878. Pilot killed ]

366th FS 358th FG
P47D-2-RE serial 42-8041

Augustus Hamilton died July 14 1944 over Berou-la-Mulotiere (France, I assume)
Some info here (although the aircraft info is not completely accurate):
https://www.database-memoire.eu/pri...ille-h-us/617-hamilton-gus-jr-366-fs-358-fg-u

I think I only do one aircraft (paper model) from that fighter group, and that's TarHeel Hal (shown below).
So I assume your Lil' Ham 3 might have the orange tail like Tarheel Hal, but I have no idea what any other forward paint might be.
(Until we find a better photo)
Keep in mind, Tarheel Hal (as shown) is a bubbletop (later D model), whereas Lil Ham is an early "razorback" style of P47.
And Lil Ham is obviously painted green, not bare metal.

I would be interested in seeing those photos, because I can add LIl Ham to my catalog.

View attachment 125592

View attachment 125593

Not all P-47 Thunderbolts were bare metal as some folks assumed. They re also were Olive Drab.

 

[Edbert]

Not all P-47 Thunderbolts were bare metal as some folks assumed. They re also were Olive Drab.

Definitely true, doubt anyone who has seen (all of us here right?) this famous vintage picture of "D" (5 I think) and "B" flying together.

Only stands to reason that painting and marking standards existed, but were secondary concerns.

 

[airdave]

Marking standards existed then and now, but paint colours were up to individual Groups and Squadrons.

Olive drab was/is a colour that the human eye has difficulty seeing under certain conditions making it a perfect camouflage colour.
Early 1944, factories stopped shipping aircraft painted with Olive Drab.
By this time, the USAAF was confident about air superiority and radar controlled flak made camouflage redundant.
Weight was also a consideration, and unpainted aircraft were much lighter. Every pound of paint, was a pound of fuel.
Not to mention, assembly time was shortened by eliminating the various painting steps.

Maintaining the paint in the field proved to be a difficult task and colour matching wasn't really a concern.
And most crews wanted individuality and were modifying aircraft in the field anyway.

So, while some aircraft had been stripped of their paint, most were painted green prior to February 1944.
Lil Ham P47D-2-RE serial (4)42-8041 was produced and shipped early 1944

 

[user 22148]

Found this whilst doing a google search - 366th FS 1944 Lil' Ham



Hope these Help. Tamiya Do a nice 1/48 or 1/72 Razorback P-47D. If you can get custom decals made you're Golden. Hataka do a nice USAAF in the ETO paint set, but that depends if you want water based acrylics or not. Really looking forward to seeing the build.

Cheers!

 

[urumomo]

What a beast of an aircraft .
Sky Tank

 

[user 22148]

What a beast of an aircraft .
Sky Tank

I whole-heartedly agree!

 

[ohbejuan]

View attachment 125598
[Report - 8041 366th FS [IA-Z], 358th FG, 9th AF, High Halden, Station 411; "Mrs. Ham" / "Lil' Ham 3";
Shot down by Fw 190A-8 flown by unknown pilot and unit crashing on a wooded hill in Bérou-la-Mulotière,
France July 14, 1944; MACR 6878. Pilot killed ]

366th FS 358th FG
P47D-2-RE serial 42-8041

Augustus Hamilton died July 14 1944 over Berou-la-Mulotiere (France, I assume)
Some info here (although the aircraft info is not completely accurate):
https://www.database-memoire.eu/pri...ille-h-us/617-hamilton-gus-jr-366-fs-358-fg-u

I think I only do one aircraft (paper model) from that fighter group, and that's TarHeel Hal (shown below).
So I assume your Lil' Ham 3 might have the orange tail like Tarheel Hal, but I have no idea what any other forward paint might be.
(Until we find a better photo)
Keep in mind, Tarheel Hal (as shown) is a bubbletop (later D model), whereas Lil Ham is an early "razorback" style of P47.
And Lil Ham is obviously painted green, not bare metal.

I would be interested in seeing those photos, because I can add LIl Ham to my catalog.

View attachment 125592

View attachment 125593

What a beast of an aircraft .
Sky Tank

this is wonderful and helpful! I did not even know if it was bubble top or razor back.

 

[ohbejuan]

View attachment 125598
[Report - 8041 366th FS [IA-Z], 358th FG, 9th AF, High Halden, Station 411; "Mrs. Ham" / "Lil' Ham 3";
Shot down by Fw 190A-8 flown by unknown pilot and unit crashing on a wooded hill in Bérou-la-Mulotière,
France July 14, 1944; MACR 6878. Pilot killed ]

366th FS 358th FG
P47D-2-RE serial 42-8041

Augustus Hamilton died July 14 1944 over Berou-la-Mulotiere (France, I assume)
Some info here (although the aircraft info is not completely accurate):
https://www.database-memoire.eu/pri...ille-h-us/617-hamilton-gus-jr-366-fs-358-fg-u

I think I only do one aircraft (paper model) from that fighter group, and that's TarHeel Hal (shown below).
So I assume your Lil' Ham 3 might have the orange tail like Tarheel Hal, but I have no idea what any other forward paint might be.
(Until we find a better photo)
Keep in mind, Tarheel Hal (as shown) is a bubbletop (later D model), whereas Lil Ham is an early "razorback" style of P47.
And Lil Ham is obviously painted green, not bare metal.

I would be interested in seeing those photos, because I can add LIl Ham to my catalog.

View attachment 125592

View attachment 125593

thank you for all the research! this is so helpful

 

[ohbejuan]

Found this whilst doing a google search - 366th FS 1944 Lil' Ham



Hope these Help. Tamiya Do a nice 1/48 or 1/72 Razorback P-47D. If you can get custom decals made you're Golden. Hataka do a nice USAAF in the ETO paint set, but that depends if you want water based acrylics or not. Really looking forward to seeing the build.

Cheers!

I can't thank you enough! this is everything I need.

 

[user 22148]

I can't thank you enough! this is everything I need.

No problem - looking forward to seeing the build

 

[airdave]

Did we find any photos of the nose art for Mrs Ham/Lil Ham ?

it looks like a pin up. (these guys were known for their pinups)

 

[ohbejuan]

I never got a good closed up, but I did get the test on the other side "Mrs Ham"

 

[airdave]

Yeah that pinup art is unique and very important (for a model of this aircraft).
I started work on a new kit yesterday, but after a days worth of research, I have been unable to find any reference for the nose art.
Without it, I can't complete it, or publish.

Many pinup nose arts were based on pinup artworks of the time, like Vargas and Petty girls.
But the one photo of the left side doesn't give enough clues.

...
related to earlier comments: the wing insignia (size and placement) are basically like this (on this type of P47) below.
- of course, the right side wing has no upper insignia
(sorry, I erred when I suggested it might have been a larger upper roundel, early deliveries to the UK had that.
This aircraft most likely had the 60" underside and 36" on the top, like the fuselage.
Shown is the correct position)

 

[ohbejuan]

this is super helpful!

 

[Edbert]

Good info airdave (I wanted to say SuperDave, as in Osborne), your avatar reminds me of Richard Hammond, must be the flag and the character's height.

 

[airdave]

Good info airdave (I wanted to say SuperDave, as in Osborne), your avatar reminds me of Richard Hammond, must be the flag and the character's height.

I met SuperDave Osborne back in the late 80s at show tapings. (I can actually be seen in the audience of a couple of TV episodes!)
He gave me this large metal pinback badge that features a sketch of him as he ended up in one of his old stunt clips*.
(*Stunt - Youtube "Super Dave - Balloon Ball")

Anyway, years later I created my own badge artwork (with my own face) to be a logo to be used on the paper modelers forum.
I since modified it with the union jack.
I guess, with the goatee beard, I look a bit like Hamster.

And yes, I'm not tall. So what's it to you?