Next on the bench for the DAK Desert Oasis Diorama.
Tamiya 1/35 Panzerkampfwagen III
- Thread starter TimM63
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user 22148
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Where's the popcorn....
Question:
For the front spaced armor, does it matter if I use Type A or Type B? What's the difference, is it different variant?
For the front spaced armor, does it matter if I use Type A or Type B? What's the difference, is it different variant?
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Jakko
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It's a minor difference between tanks, I think, possibly depending on which factory it came out of? (Don't quote me on that, I'm not well up to speed on the Panzer III 
) B has some plates over the struts that hold the additional armour away from the main, A doesn't — unless you're building a specific vehicle from a photo and know which it had, I'd say just pick the one you like best.
) B has some plates over the struts that hold the additional armour away from the main, A doesn't — unless you're building a specific vehicle from a photo and know which it had, I'd say just pick the one you like best.
Thanks Jakko. I appreciate the response. In the pictures I've seen the tank either has Type B with the plate or doesn't have any front spaced armor.
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Jakko
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Let me consult Mr. Spielberger
The picture you posted above is of an Ausführung J (it says so at the top ), which is the one before the L that your kit represents (there was a K as well, but it was apparently only made as a command tank, Panzerbefehlswagen). The Ausf. J left the factory without this armour, but could have it retrofitted. The illustration shows an early J, BTW, with 5 cm L/42 gun and vision flaps in the turret sides, while later Js got an L/60 gun (whose barrel was 90 cm longer than the L/42: 60 − 42 = 18; 18 × 5 cm = 90 cm) and had the vision flaps deleted. The L also had those features.
Apparently, the extra armour was standard on the Ausführung L. However, due to a shortage of these armour plates, some Ausf. L tanks were built without it. Late Ls lacked the escape doors in the hull sides, but your kit has them, so it's not a late L. I can't find anything about the distinction between tanks with and without the cover plate on the top of the extra armour, though. That probably needs a more detailed book
The picture you posted above is of an Ausführung J (it says so at the top
), which is the one before the L that your kit represents (there was a K as well, but it was apparently only made as a command tank, Panzerbefehlswagen). The Ausf. J left the factory without this armour, but could have it retrofitted. The illustration shows an early J, BTW, with 5 cm L/42 gun and vision flaps in the turret sides, while later Js got an L/60 gun (whose barrel was 90 cm longer than the L/42: 60 − 42 = 18; 18 × 5 cm = 90 cm) and had the vision flaps deleted. The L also had those features.Apparently, the extra armour was standard on the Ausführung L. However, due to a shortage of these armour plates, some Ausf. L tanks were built without it. Late Ls lacked the escape doors in the hull sides, but your kit has them, so it's not a late L. I can't find anything about the distinction between tanks with and without the cover plate on the top of the extra armour, though. That probably needs a more detailed book
I still need to get the turret together then ready for paint.
I ordered the detail set for this kit. Not sure what I will use out of it but some of it will get used.
These guys rode up today.
I've not built this tank -looks like it's coming together well!
I have the German grey base coat done. Next is a flat clear coat, then a couple light coats of hairspray, then the desert yellow.
Jakko
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I don't know how much you aim at historical accuracy, but despite popular belief, German vehicles in Africa were generally not sand yellow Depending on the exact time, they were supposed to be yellow-brown with grey-green patches over one-third of the vehicle, or later, a darker, greenish tan with grey patches. Once the war in North Africa got going for the Gerrmans, vehicles destined for Africa began coming from the factory in those colours (and some of those then ended up in Russia instead).
In practice, though, schemes and patterns varied. Many vehicles were repainted from the European dark grey with whatever was available, including captured enemy paint and also (especially early on) simply with mud. So desert yellow is not impossible
Depending on the exact time, they were supposed to be yellow-brown with grey-green patches over one-third of the vehicle, or later, a darker, greenish tan with grey patches. Once the war in North Africa got going for the Gerrmans, vehicles destined for Africa began coming from the factory in those colours (and some of those then ended up in Russia instead).In practice, though, schemes and patterns varied. Many vehicles were repainted from the European dark grey with whatever was available, including captured enemy paint and also (especially early on) simply with mud. So desert yellow is not impossible
I am not much into historical accuracy. Particularly when it comes to paint colors and camo patterns.
I usually just go with what I like.
I did read that a lot of the Afrika Korps vehicles came from Germany painted in German grey and then were painted in the field.
I also read that a 50/50 blend of XF-57 Buff and XF-59 Desert Yellow was the most accurate. But didn't want to go that route.
I usually just go with what I like.
I did read that a lot of the Afrika Korps vehicles came from Germany painted in German grey and then were painted in the field.
I also read that a 50/50 blend of XF-57 Buff and XF-59 Desert Yellow was the most accurate. But didn't want to go that route.
Looks good!
... smart man. At first, I made the newb mistake of thinking I had to use everything... until I realized that an AM etch part wasn't always the best choice for the model.
Yes, especially evident if you look for photos of vehicles being unloaded, or still on the docks.
I haven't done many north african German vehicles yet, and the first one I did was a repainted British lorry!
Marauder1981
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Looks great! I'm curious about the order of parts painting on armor. I've tended to airbrush running gear (road wheels, sprockets, idlers, etc.) separately before assembly. But I also see a lot of folks complete total assembly then paint. I'm not confident I could paint rubber wheel portions after they're on the tank. I guess there's the practice of un-glued partial assembly too, but that seems fiddly and unpredictable to me... I can just see bits falling off (or blowing off) while I try to paint, making a mess!
I have it so I can separate the sections. Lower hull, upper hull, and turret. It will be easier to paint details.
Jakko
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The short answer: Whichever order you find works best for you.
I normally build the whole hull (including joining top and bottom) and turret, but minus the running gear and any parts that get in the way of fitting those, like side skirts. I frequently also leave the wheels attached to the sprue for easier spraying — even building double roadwheels on the sprue, by keeping one half on the sprue and glueing the other half to it.
Only once the model is mostly painted do I put all of this together. The K2 Black Panther I'm building at the moment is a good example: if you click that link, it takes you to a post with a photo of a green-painted K2 without its wheels or side skirts. The point I'm at at the moment is that I finished painting other than some details, so I fit the wheels and tracks. The side skirts will be glued on next, but I'll probably add a little weathering to the lower hull before I do that (because else the skirts will be in the way for that).
Top coat is on. Now to do some chipping and weathering.
mustang1989
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Looking forward to seeing what she's gonna look like with some wear and tear on her. Progress is lookin good Tim
Got a start on some wear and tear.
Jakko
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Looking good, it's in the right places, where paint gets rubbed off by the crew. I would suggest adding more worn paint, especially along the edges of the turret and superstructure, and around the turret hatches and doors. The insides of the hatches and doors would likely be completely Panzer grey, as the tank would have been painted with them closed. That would also have left a sharply demarcated line of Panzer grey where the base colour was covered by the hatch/door.
kevin
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Agreed, looking really good so far.
One thing that stands out to my eye are the turret numbers. I would suggest some weathering of the decals as well.
One thing that stands out to my eye are the turret numbers. I would suggest some weathering of the decals as well.
I just saw this. Sand is not accurate?I don't know how much you aim at historical accuracy, but despite popular belief, German vehicles in Africa were generally not sand yellow
In practice, though, schemes and patterns varied. Many vehicles were repainted from the European dark grey with whatever was available, including captured enemy paint and also (especially early on) simply with mud. So desert yellow is not impossible
That's similar to how I do it. Except I don't leave the wheels on the sprues. Well I paint the job on the sprue and then remove.
I'm not a stickler for accuracy, but the question was asked, and here is a bit more info.
Besides the aforementioned regarding vehicles arriving in European schemes, or using captured British paint, AK's Real colors of WW2 book states, according to their research, that:
by early 1941, vehicles should be painted RAL 8000 Gel Braun (Yellow Brown) and RAL 7008 Graugrün (Grey green)... Colours not specifically developed for Africa
So, by March 1942, specifications were drafted for RAL 8020 Braun (Brown) and RAL 7027 Grau (Grey)
This is a 'warm' photo of a printed page from the book.
A more 'neutral' lighting.
Though I haven't seen it anywhere, there must be also a possibility that vehicles receive Italian paint (their ally), which did have a 'Sand' colour in their stores.
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Jakko
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It very much depends
German vehicles arrived in dark grey and were soon camouflaged with whatever was available — which could be paint, but also mud made from local soil. A good deal of of equipment in North Africa (on both sides) was also painted with things like captured enemy paint, or other paint that happened to be available, such as the Italian ones that @BarleyBop mentions.But if you're aiming for official German colour, "sand" sand was not used. RAL 8000 and 8020 are both kind of very dark sand colours, sure, but officially they were brown rather than tan (sand colour would probably more likely be called beige in German rather than braun). Neither of the two is a classic "sand colour", though, as the paint chips above also show.
It's not a great photo, because it's a scan of a picture I took with a fairly cheap APS camera, but it shows fairly well the overall tone of the colours on Bovington's Tiger in 2002:
This was not long after it was restored to its original colours, which caused quite a stir in the modelling community for being "wrong" to a lot of people — despite the colours being close matches for what the restorers found under all the layers of post-war paint.
This being a Tiger captured in Tunisia, though, these are late colours and would not be representative of the colours of tanks in 1941–42 in the Libyan desert.
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Edbert
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Sorry, but those cables are NOT gonna pull a 60T (not metric...LOL) tank outta the mud
But to stay on-topic, it is my opinion that the "curb-appeal" of the Pz-III and Crusader tanks were the height of aesthetics. They are just....BEAUTIFUL!
kevin
Well-Known Member
I think the smaller cables are for pulling the tracks, to put them back on the vehicle.
