1/48 Ta-152H1 (Zoukei-Mura)

[Edbert]

Now that whoever read that is Thoroughly screwed up on types of paint.. what was someone building on this thread?

Yes, and the panel-lining part of it.

I'm happy to say the AK lacquer stood up VERY well to damp or wet Q-tips. The AK Extreme metal was okay, but have to be VERY careful with the rubbing, I might need some touchups later.

I used my homemade wash, some black and a lot of brown (Testors Model Masters) mixed with about 90% turpentine.

 

[Ron2]

Yes, and the panel-lining part of it.

I'm happy to say the AK lacquer stood up VERY well to damp or wet Q-tips. The AK Extreme metal was okay, but have to be VERY careful with the rubbing, I might need some touchups later.

View attachment 191161View attachment 191162

I used my homemade wash, some black and a lot of brown (Testors Model Masters) mixed with about 90% turpentine.

View attachment 191163

Looks nice! How does turpentine compare to mineral spirits?

 

[Edbert]

Looks nice! How does turpentine compare to mineral spirits?

You're asking the wrong guy, I'm chemistry-class challenged.

I think they're the same thing, just a marketing ploy, but what I used says "mineral spirits" on the label. If I were to guess, turpentine is more industrial, maybe hotter.

 

[MRDuczz]

Yes, and the panel-lining part of it.

I'm happy to say the AK lacquer stood up VERY well to damp or wet Q-tips. The AK Extreme metal was okay, but have to be VERY careful with the rubbing, I might need some touchups later.

Wow, you're setting the bar really high on this one!

 

[Rockin' Rob]

You're asking the wrong guy, I'm chemistry-class challenged.

I think they're the same thing, just a marketing ploy, but what I used says "mineral spirits" on the label.

Urumomo is the man for questions like that. Although he may make you watch two or three videos

 

[BarleyBop]

two or three videos

 

[49thStateRT]

His question was, I think, does he need to apply an acrylic clear coat over the laquer based acrylic real colors and/ or true laquer (I think) extreme metal colors, good question. I assume he wants to use enamel weathering products.

 

[Edbert]

apply an acrylic clear coat over the laquer based acrylic real colors and/ or true laquer (I think) extreme metal colors

Yes, minus the detail/nuance.

Results were surprising and contradict my poor understanding of what you typed.

The AK lacquer (picture posted above) seemed bulletproof to a turpentine/enamel/mineral-spirit wash.

The AK Extreme metal (below) did okay as in was not dissolving, but with rubbing of the Q-tip it was evident that is would be eroded away.

 

[MRDuczz]

Now that all of the technical stuff is solved, your paint and wash photos are awesome!

 

[Edbert]

I've had this on the back burner for a while, working on my courage to do the One Man Army masks. What did it take to make be brave? Fear of the rigging on my S.E.5a of course!

You can see in the above photo that I addressed the too-clean and too-uniform mottling.

The Balkenkreuz on the upper wings were cake, single color and easy to align. Since I was spraying white, I did the trim tabs on the elevators too.

Bleed is not a problem if you spray very thin coats, and I used alcohol to thin it for maximum speed on drying. That lip was the hardest part, and you can see there's a little of a fuzzy edge because of it, but this is a zoomed-in image.

Those little black spots are the fuel door/type indicators. Most of them got the "87" mark, according to Zoukei two of them should have an MW50 for the methanol-water tanks. But my masks did not have that so I improvised and used the B4 there. This was a pretty difficult thing to do. Small white triangles were simple. Then a TINY little triangle inside of it to keep white and spray the yellow into the center. Then a black mask with just the numbers.

This is what it is supposed to look like...

I need to take some pictures, some of them looked good, some are a bit off. If I cannot fix it I might remove them and use the all black versions seen in the above picture. They might be more "correct" for the last few weeks of the war anyway.

 

[Rockin' Rob]

What? What did he say? I can barely read that. WTF

 

[wjbrandel]

What? What did he say? I can barely read that. WTF

Looks like the font color was changed to a light gray.

 

[Ron2]

I've had this on the back burner for a while, working on my courage to do the One Man Army masks. What did it take to make be brave? Fear of the rigging on my S.E.5a of course!
View attachment 198220
You can see in the above photo that I addressed to too-clean and too-uniform mottling.
View attachment 198221
The Balkenkreuz on the upper wings were cake, single color and easy to align. Since I was spraying white, I did the trim tabs on the elevators too.
View attachment 198222
Bleed is not a problem if you spray very thin coats, and I used alcohol to thin it for maximum speed on drying. That lip was the hardest part, and you can see there's a little of a fuzzy edge because of it, but this is a zoomed-in image.
View attachment 198223

Thos little black spots are the fuel door/type indicators. Most of them got the "87" mark, according to Zoukei two of them should have an MW50 for the methanol-water tanks. But my masks did not have that so I improvised and used the B4 there. This was a pretty difficult thing to do. Small white triangles were simple. Then a TINY little triangle inside of it to keep white and spray the yellow into the center. Then a black mask with just the numbers.

This is what it is supposed to look like...
View attachment 198224

I need to take some pictures, some of them looked good, some are a bit off. If I cannot fix it I might remove them and use the all black versions seen in the above picture. They might be more "correct" for the last few weeks of the war anyway.

Looks good!

 

[Edbert]

Here's what I mean about the fuel-labels.

From a distance they're not terrible, but I'm not okay with what I have. Just need to decide best way to fix it, if they have to be tri-colored emblems maybe I'll use stickers, or just try all black first. Lots of stencils to do that are all black.

 

[Edbert]

One more shot of the trim-tabs.

And I find this stupidity to be small minded and childish. 80+ years ago, too soon to move on?

 

[Ron2]

One more shot of the trim-tabs.

View attachment 198256

And I find this stupidity to be small minded and childish. 80+ years ago, too soon to move on?

View attachment 198257

I agree 1000%. It's history. No one's trying to glorify Nazis. Well, skin heads and Nazis are but I'm guessing that's not you. The other factor is there is not a nation out there that hasn't committed some travesty. and why isn't the rising sun an issue? Oh, don't get me going!

 

[Jakko]

And I find this stupidity to be small minded and childish. 80+ years ago, too soon to move on?

The reason is that German criminal law section 86a is normally interpreted with the intent to err on the side of caution. Even though there is an exception for "art or science, research or teaching", and common sense says that would reasonably apply to modelling unless you're specifically building models to glorify counter-constitutional organisations, few people (especially proprietors of model shops) want to run that risk.

 

[Ron2]

The reason is that German criminal law section 86a is normally interpreted with the intent to err on the side of caution. Even though there is an exception for "art or science, research or teaching", and common sense says that would reasonably apply to modelling unless you're specifically building models to glorify counter-constitutional organisations, few people (especially proprietors of model shops) want to run that risk.

That may be true across the pond but in the US it's largely political correctness which I find irritating.

 

[Edbert]

err on the side of caution

Hammer and Sickle = 40 to 60 million dead = legal
Yellow Star = 80 to 100 million dead = legal

(I stand by the childish and stupid statement)

 

[Edbert]

skin heads and Nazis

Those are just criminals and high-school dropouts.

 

[VegasAWACER13]

It is actually illegal in many European countries to sell anything with a swastika on it. So it doesn't have much to do with social political correctness. Companies want to be able to sell their product, and I'm sure a lot of them aren't going to spend the money to have two separate product lines where they include the swastika for countries where it is legal.

 

[Ron2]

It is actually illegal in many European countries to sell anything with a swastika on it. So it doesn't have much to do with social political correctness. Companies want to be able to sell their product, and I'm sure a lot of them aren't going to spend the money to have two separate product lines where they include the swastika for countries where it is legal.

That makes sense. Market determines product.

 

[Jakko]

in the US it's largely political correctness which I find irritating.

Nothing to do with that — instead, you're looking at the way laws in one country or region can affect products in another. Because Germany (as well as Austria and some other countries, but chiefly Germany) forbid the display of national-socialist and related symbols, kits with swastika decals in them might be illegal to sell there, but it's uneconomical to produce two versions. As a result, everyone gets the decal sheet made to comply with German laws.

Much the same reason as why you can recharge any current mobile phone and tablet (plus, soon, laptop) with a USB-C charger: you cannot sell such devices in the European Union if they don't accept a USB-C charger, so it doesn't make economic sense to make a USB-C model for the EU but one with, say, a micro-USB or Lightning connector for the rest of the world.

Hammer and Sickle = 40 to 60 million dead = legal
Yellow Star = 80 to 100 million dead = legal

You're confusing a paranoid dictator in a totalitarian country (coupled to a cult of personality in the second case), with a totalitarian country that has enacted extremely discriminatory laws.

 

[Edbert]

You're confusing a paranoid dictator in a totalitarian country (coupled to a cult of personality in the second case), with a totalitarian country that has enacted extremely discriminatory laws.

I think all three apply to all three, and others.

 

[Jakko]

No, I don't think they do. Hitler ≠ Stalin ≠ Mao.

 

[Ron2]

Nothing to do with that — instead, you're looking at the way laws in one country or region can affect products in another. Because Germany (as well as Austria and some other countries, but chiefly Germany) forbid the display of national-socialist and related symbols, kits with swastika decals in them might be illegal to sell there, but it's uneconomical to produce two versions. As a result, everyone gets the decal sheet made to comply with German laws.

Much the same reason as why you can recharge any current mobile phone and tablet (plus, soon, laptop) with a USB-C charger: you cannot sell such devices in the European Union if they don't accept a USB-C charger, so it doesn't make economic sense to make a USB-C model for the EU but one with, say, a micro-USB or Lightning connector for the rest of the world.


You're confusing a paranoid dictator in a totalitarian country (coupled to a cult of personality in the second case), with a totalitarian country that has enacted extremely discriminatory laws.

No, I was referring to political correctness here not about kits supplying swastikas for German ww2 planes.

 

[Ron2]

Nothing to do with that — instead, you're looking at the way laws in one country or region can affect products in another. Because Germany (as well as Austria and some other countries, but chiefly Germany) forbid the display of national-socialist and related symbols, kits with swastika decals in them might be illegal to sell there, but it's uneconomical to produce two versions. As a result, everyone gets the decal sheet made to comply with German laws.

Much the same reason as why you can recharge any current mobile phone and tablet (plus, soon, laptop) with a USB-C charger: you cannot sell such devices in the European Union if they don't accept a USB-C charger, so it doesn't make economic sense to make a USB-C model for the EU but one with, say, a micro-USB or Lightning connector for the rest of the world.


You're confusing a paranoid dictator in a totalitarian country (coupled to a cult of personality in the second case), with a totalitarian country that has enacted extremely discriminatory laws.

I took Edberts comment to be that the Soviet Union and china have committed their atrocities, yet their symbols are "legal". Similar to what I had said.

 

[Edbert]

Back to the plane today.

I tried cleaning off the emblems with a water dampened Q-tip, NOTHING. Tried it wet, still nothing, tried a bit of spit (guessing) and the Tamiya XF paint was solid, at least without a lot of pressure it was. So I put some 70% alcohol on it, and blotted up/out 90% of the fluid for a barely damp tip and tried a light swipe. IT WORKED! So I continued, using light pressure, and within an instant it ate the lacquer down to the primer!

 

[Edbert]

No, I don't think they do. Hitler ≠ Stalin ≠ Mao.

I take responsibility for this derailment/sidetrack. I'm okay will calling it done, or continuing, just not interested in offending people.

That said...

Of course the three are not the same (= being a math term), but they overlap to an immense degree. Using your terms... They are/were all three totalitarian, all three had a cult-of-personality around them, and all three enacted discriminatory laws. I'd add that all three were criminally insane, paranoid, and mass-murderers of innocent people and probably a dozen other horrible things. If 21st century man feels the need to ban 20th century symbols that lead to horrors, I would like to see some consistency.