Vallejo Questions

[DreamKnight]

OK, so I really start to dive in tonite to use Vallejo Model Paints..

Let me give you a little background. I bought 5 bottles from ECH about a couple of weeks ago. When they came, they were in my mailbox. Now... I live in L.A. When I say it's cold here, that usually means it's 68f degrees... ok? The day the paints came, it was pretty hot in L.A. and sitting in my metal mailbox down the street, it was pretty much an oven. When I was carrying the box back to my place, I had to switch the box to my other hand back and forth.

Well, Of course I run up to my second floor and rip open the package and open a bottle. I think it was the intermediate blue. It basically kinda gushed out a few drops. Cleaned it up, put a few drops in my cup and thinned it with regular water and sprayed and designed a neat card box box. Sprayed it on some plastic too to see how it felt when dry. Love the feel.

It's kinda like toothpaste right now. I have a bunch of bottles coming in tomorrow so I can compare.

Anyways... I put some in my airbrush tonite. This IS NOT TAMIYA. lol No where near, no sir, no how. This definitely is going to take a getting used to. I've used up almost half of the thinner bottle trying to figure it out.

When I first started to spray, it came out perfect... then SPLAT. Big out gusher of watery paint and then going find again...and then clogged. So I cleaned out the brush and started again. Went through it like about 3 or 4 tries then gave up for the night (kinda tired anyways so I'm not at my best) and I'll try tomorrow. So I did some research and come here to post some questions.

My corsair is kinda a mess right now but nothing I can't fix. I've gotten out of bigger blotched jobs.

1. It's it suppose to be as thick as paste? It wasn't like this when I first got them but then I think they were just finished boiling in the mailbox.

2. Where I messed up I let it dry to the touch and tried to sand it. Is it THIS soft? Or it just hasn't cured? Because it doesn't seem this soft in areas when the paint it thinly painted on. The paint just lifted off the plastic like dried PVA glue. I stopped the sanding once I got the major gunk off. I'm hoping it'll harden by tomorrow so I can sand down the edges between paint and no paint flush to the plastic. Right now it look like huge area got paint chipped. Kinda cool effect though. I might have to try that later on terrain or something. (See pic)

3. Continuing with the last question, with Tamiya I can use regular paint as a base/primer. I've done it this way for a while now. With the way the paint just lifted off the plastic, is it because I didn't let it cure or you NEED to have a real primer to put on Vallejo?

4. I'm going through thinner really quick here. Even if I didn't mess up, this little bottle wouldn't last long. Does the distill water mix with retardant and a couple drops of future work just as good?


I should have read more up on it but I doubt I'd know to ask these questions unless I didn't try it first. lol

Thanks!

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[Biskup]

Hi,
I'm using Vallejo for some while so I will try to help.
1. They have coupe of lines of paints. Game Color which is for painting gaming figurines (it doesn’t rub of so easily). Model Color which is generally for modeling. Air Color which is thinned up version of Model Color ready to use for airbrush. Game Color and Model color are rather thick inside and it has sometimes consistency of past which is good cause you get more paint for less money as you can thinned it.
2. If the surface isn’t prepared surfaced or sanded this paint unfortunately doesn’t stick to good.
3. It is better to use some kind of primer it even can be some other paint that sticks well to the surface.
4. Vallejo are water based paint so for thinning them (Game Color, Model Color) you can use tap water but it’s better to use dematerialized water as the paint has better properties then when you use regular water and you can easily add to the mixture retarder. If you want to thin Model Color or Game Color paints for air brush I found by experimenting that using water then some Tamiya thinner makes wonders. It goes easily thru airbrush and doesn’t run down on model. As the paint has different thickness I can’t get you the ratio so you just need to experiment.
I hope I help at least a bit.
Cheers

 

[ministuff]

Biskup has said it all, just as I would have put it.

I use up till 99% Vallejo Colors only nowdays, and I love the smell and taste of them as I'm a brushlicker ;D

 

[DreamKnight]

1. They have coupe of lines of paints. Game Color which is for painting gaming figurines (it doesn’t rub of so easily). Model Color which is generally for modeling. Air Color which is thinned up version of Model Color ready to use for airbrush. Game Color and Model color are rather thick inside and it has sometimes consistency of past which is good cause you get more paint for less money as you can thinned it.

4. If you want to thin Model Color or Game Color paints for air brush I found by experimenting that using water then some Tamiya thinner makes wonders.

For 1. How do you mix it into your cup? Thin it in something and then pour it into the cup? Or Pour in thinner first, then drip a few drops of sludge into it and then mix it?

For 4, I assuming the X20A? I normally use Tamiya lacquer thinner for Tamyia paints so I wanna make sure which kind.

 

[DreamKnight]

Nevermind about it drying soft. It was still a bit wet. It's sanding better now.

 

[DreamKnight]

Biskup has said it all, just as I would have put it.

I use up till 99% Vallejo Colors only nowdays, and I love the smell and taste of them as I'm a brushlicker ;D

LOL Thanks. I'll try a lick when I hit it with some figures.

 

[Biskup]

1. They have coupe of lines of paints. Game Color which is for painting gaming figurines (it doesn’t rub of so easily). Model Color which is generally for modeling. Air Color which is thinned up version of Model Color ready to use for airbrush. Game Color and Model color are rather thick inside and it has sometimes consistency of past which is good cause you get more paint for less money as you can thinned it.

4. If you want to thin Model Color or Game Color paints for air brush I found by experimenting that using water then some Tamiya thinner makes wonders.

For 1. How do you mix it into your cup? Thin it in something and then pour it into the cup? Or Pour in thinner first, then drip a few drops of sludge into it and then mix it?

For 4, I assuming the X20A? I normally use Tamiya lacquer thinner for Tamyia paints so I wanna make sure which kind.

I always get same paint out on a tray and thin it there.
I'm not sure about the markings it's the one I glass bottle.
Cheers

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

DK,

As with any paint............dry and cured are not the same. Vallejo can be dry to the touch in 5mins, but about 24hrs to cure.

When thinning in the airbrush, thinner first....always.

Primer.....always.

Vigorously shake the bottle before using....always.

If you find it isn't mixing up enough in the bottle, the dropper top comes off, so you can stick in your favorite paint stirrer (Tamiya Stir stick is my preference).

If you are going to use water to thin for airbrushing....go to your local pharmacy, super market, and get yourself a gallon of distilled water. While tap water will work, the minerals in the water can react with the paint, and can affect its drying, smoothness, and even leave mineral deposits on the paint once dry.

Haven't heard of a couple of drops of future with the paint mix....I would say only if you want to change the properties of the color from a matt to a gloss or semi-gloss (all the colors are matt, unless they say otherwise, of which there are only 2 gloss colors in the Model Color line), Vallejo makes Gloss, Semi-Gloss, and Matt varnishes and mediums to be used with the paint.

Yes you will go through thinner quickly, as some colors may require as much as 80-85% thinner to get them to spray properly.

When I said there was a steeper learning curve to thinning Vallejo to airbrush, I wasn't kidding. Everything you know about thinning Tamiya for airbrushing...throw it out the window, and start fresh. The results however are worth it.

Not all colors are the same, as for some colors it takes more or less pigment, to make a certain color.

For something like white or grey, you won't need to thin it as much, however for blues and reds, you will have to thin more than usual. There is no set ratio like Tamiya (pretty much 50/50 thinner and paint will spray any Tamiya), consistency of skim milk is the best advice I can give you.

 

[Jeep]

One of the tricks I have used with Vallejo bottles is to drop a .25 gram airsoft BB in each bottle. Then replace the top, The BB will help stir the pigment up when you give the bottle a shake before use. As always paint like a cool dry dark storage area.

 

[DreamKnight]

OK, everyone is saying mostly what I already know or can find on the internet. lol

As with any paint............dry and cured are not the same. Vallejo can be dry to the touch in 5mins, but about 24hrs to cure.

I understand that. But is it soft because it has't cured? or will it always be that soft as Vallejo?

When thinning in the airbrush, thinner first....always.

Ok, but does it matter though? It seems it's thick that is just falls to the bottom of the cup anyways. Maybe I should tilt the cup to the side a bit so it doesn't hit the bottom where the paint goes through the airbrush.

If you find it isn't mixing up enough in the bottle, the dropper top comes off, so you can stick in your favorite paint stirrer (Tamiya Stir stick is my preference).

OK here you go then. How do you know if it isn't mixing up enough?

Haven't heard of a couple of drops of future with the paint mix....I would say only if you want to change the properties of the color from a matt to a gloss or semi-gloss (all the colors are matt, unless they say otherwise, of which there are only 2 gloss colors in the Model Color line), Vallejo makes Gloss, Semi-Gloss, and Matt varnishes and mediums to be used with the paint.

Oh the future is suppose to give the paint more "toughness". /shrugs

When I said there was a steeper learning curve to thinning Vallejo to airbrush, I wasn't kidding. Everything you know about thinning Tamiya for airbrushing...throw it out the window, and start fresh. The results however are worth it.

Yup yup. discovering it now. Already thrown out and just starting from scratch.

 

[Bill TGH]

Vellajo & Future are THE products for the 21st century...

I will mix Vellajo thinner (reducer ? not sure about the chemistry) & Future in equal amounts & add the paint to a slightly thinner than milk consistancy... the result is a satin to semigloss finish that quite oftem matches my decal finish (eases the number of top coats required for weathering) I'll spray that with low pressure in a very light, very poorly covering 1st coat... wait approx 5 minutes then up the pressure and hit it again. After an hour, ready to handle, decal, detail & so on.

If I've done a lot of reconstruction, putty or mixed bits from different coloured kits (or found a Matchbox kit in the stash) I'll prime - rattle can, fast dry ICI metal primer is my favorite (I know the rep & get a dea

 

[sunsanvil]

I've never used (or felt I had to use) primer with Vallejo since standardizing on them over 4 years ago...but that's just me.

Ok, but does it matter though? It seems it's thick that is just falls to the bottom of the cup anyways. Maybe I should tilt the cup to the side a bit so it doesn't hit the bottom where the paint goes through the airbrush.

IF your airbrush has a regulator you can cap with a finger and backwash air, problem solved. Mine doesn't so I either mix in a cup first and load the AB, or just put a little too much thinner in first knowing that even if I mix well in the AB cup I'll blow a little pure thinner out at the start.

PS, I know everyone here thins ModelColor, and I am among them, but for my money ModelAir just plain works better so I'm gradually converting my paints over.

 

[DreamKnight]

I've never used (or felt I had to use) primer with Vallejo since standardizing on them over 4 years ago...but that's just me.

Ok, but does it matter though? It seems it's thick that is just falls to the bottom of the cup anyways. Maybe I should tilt the cup to the side a bit so it doesn't hit the bottom where the paint goes through the airbrush.

IF your airbrush has a regulator you can cap with a finger and backwash air, problem solved. Mine doesn't so I either mix in a cup first and load the AB, or just put a little too much thinner in first knowing that even if I mix well in the AB cup I'll blow a little pure thinner out at the start.

PS, I know everyone here thins ModelColor, and I am among them, but for my money ModelAir just plain works better so I'm gradually converting my paints over.

OK thanks. I was thinking of collecting the modelAir line too. Gonna cost me a bundle but seems well worth it.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

After about 24hrs, Vallejo will be as hard as a rock.....once it is fully cured. Before that, yes, it is soft...you could take it off with your fingernail.

I have never had much results in getting Vallejo to stick to bare plastic or resin, but then again I am lazy, and don't wash my parts before I start.....shot of primer cures all of that. I used to use the rattle can Tamiya Fine Grey or white, but since Vallejo has come out with their Urethane primers, that is what I have used as of late. Works quite well.

Thinner first, doesn't matter if the paint drops to the bottom....it won't reach the tip of the needle, thinner, then paint, and mix, your first second of spraying should be mostly pure thinner. Alternatively, you can mix it in a bottle before you put it in your airbrush, glass bottle like a badger one works well with the clear glass, gives you a good feel for the opacity of the paint.

Shake for a good 30secs and should be well mixed, when the paint separates from the thinner, the thinner goes to the top, so if you don't shake it, the first you will see is some colored thinner.

Adding future is fine if you want a gloss or semi-gloss to your finish. Personally, I only put future where decals are going to go (painted on with a brush) depending on the kit of course. But something like a piece of armor that only has a few markings....I don't bother with a future coat before decals, I just paint future on locally. Vallejo paint isn't as matt as the XF series from Tamiya. Just matt enough that pigment will stick, but not so matt that pin washes won't go where you don't want them to go. If anything, I have used less Future since I started using Vallejo, then I ever did using Tamiya. As far as toughness....Future isn't that tough....dry/cured future will disintegrate with warm water on it, rather quickly, Vallejo paint won't. I honestly don't see or believe that adding future to your Vallejo will increase it's toughness, its only property would be to turn a matt color into a semi-gloss or gloss color.

 

[DreamKnight]

Shake for a good 30secs and should be well mixed, when the paint separates from the thinner, the thinner goes to the top, so if you don't shake it, the first you will see is some colored thinner.

That is probably my problem right there. I shake it like Tamiya paints which is 3 to 5 seconds of hard shaking and good to go.

I got the other paints in today. Does the Vallejo matte varnish need to be thinned?

 

[sunsanvil]

Vallejo's varnishes are tough, and I mean tough. I absolutely love them, especially the matt which provides a near dead finish without lightening the color hardly. They take even longer than the paint to fully cure but can be worked as soon as 24 hours after applying.

Now I did have a bit of a hard road figuring out how to best get them to airbrush. When I first tried them I did so strait from the bottle but found they gummed up at the needle/tip a lot, so much so I was in the habit of having a qtip soaked in cleaner, wiping the head down ever few minutes. I tried lowering the pressure and thinning, which is the conventional wisdom when faced with tip-dry. First with just distilled water, then with their thinner. It was better, but not by much. Then out of frustration one day I tried upping my pressure... and just like that they worked perfectly, even strait out of the bottle. I would get through an entire coat without needing to wipe the tip even once. We can debate the science of it but bottom line is they (apparently) just need to "move".

Gloss is a tad trickier in that you need to really shotgun it if you want a truly gloss finish. If you go lightly you will get a "texture". I recommend thinning with some water, between 1:3 and 1:4, and really hit it. If it looks like its almost going to run, you are there. It WILL shrink while it cures and tighten up nicely.

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

Yeah, as Sunsanvil says, straight from the bottle, higher airpressure than normal.

It was once thought that the Model Air Varnishes were pre-thinned like the rest of the Model Air line, however Alex Vallejo himself set me straight when I complained that they were discontinuing the varnishes in the Model Air line.

He told me that the varnishes in the Model Color line were infact the same product....now I know the rest of the story! LOL

 

[DreamKnight]

OK, I'm still doing something wrong. I was painting one of my Pegasus Knights for warhammer tonite and it's still funky. I used water, a couple drops of the gooey retarder and a few drops of Model Color black (The black is not thick paste like the Vallejo white).

What happens is this. It sprays great for 3 seconds then it stops spraying paint. Just air. I keep spraying on a paper towel until I see it coming out again and then spray the object. Now it's all watery. I stop and stir the cup and barely any paint comes out. I adjust the brush for a wider spray and the paint comes out and I spray for 3 seconds and it does it again.

It's clogging the air brush from what I'm figuring. I'm thinking the paint falls and settings to the bottom of the cup. Am I not mixing it enough? I'm shaking all the bottle for over a minute before I mix it in the cup. I also tried to use Windex as the thinner. Same effect though it seems to hold a little longer on the mix. I'm thinking the paint is separating too fast in the cup OR I'm just having problems with comprehending the simple concept of "Mixing". LOL I mean, how much more can you extend the "Stir the paint in the f@#$!#g cup" technique?

It's the paint mix for sure. Before that I was base coating 50+ figures with Mr Base and Mr. Surfacer as if I would a model and it was working fine as usual (freaking used up my bottle of Mr. Base and had to switch to siurfacer).

 

[Biskup]

I would say it's not mixed enough with Vallejo I always prepare the paint in paint try then I put it in the air brush. It's almost impossible to mix it well inside the airbrush. Second thing is that it might not by thinned enough. It's good to add some Tamiya thinner or some other alcohol based thinner it just works better.
Cheers
Lukasz

 

[Elm City Hobbies]

I would say it's not mixed enough with Vallejo I always prepare the paint in paint try then I put it in the air brush. It's almost impossible to mix it well inside the airbrush. Second thing is that it might not by thinned enough. It's good to add some Tamiya thinner or some other alcohol based thinner it just works better.
Cheers
Lukasz

DO NOT ADD TAMIYA THINNER TO VALLEJO PAINT

I can not stress this enough, that is unless you like cleaning a gooey mess out of your airbrush.

Tamiya and Vallejo are both acrylics, but are not the same type of acrylic. Tamiya acrylic thinner will actually gel Vallejo paint.


DK....how much are you thinning it? Just sounds like it isn't thinned out quite enough.