Started my first kit, and frustrated. Help PLZ

[Bowsewr]

??? Hey guys i just joined the forums a few days ago but have been looking daily at this site and a few others for a few weeks trying to soak in all the knowledge i can about the hobby before i attempt my first model since i was a kid. Bear with me as I vent my Noob frustrations and any great advice from you guys would help. I went out and got my first kit, a P61 Revell Black Widow for a few reasons:

1) i currently dont have an airbrush and so i will be hand painting/spray canning so i wanted something with a more simple paint scheme (made sense in my mind at least)

2) I dont have a particular attachment to the P61 so if it turns out real rough then its not a huge deal to me. I want to get some practice in on models i get fairly cheap so when i do the ones that i want to turn out real well I've knocked some of the kinks out.

So i read up about all i could. learning all kinds about thinning, using dawn soap to wash the plastic, using thin coats, all kinds of good stuff. I went out and dumped a good amount of money on all my supplies, cut out my cockpit parts and did a good cleaning with dawn soap and let air dry. I come back and then hit my first road bump. I decided to spray can primer the flight deck (i wasnt sure if you primer the smaller parts or just the larger parts). Well that turned out as a disaster as the spray can spattered blobs all over it and then was WAY to thick of a coat, you couldnt see any type of floor detail anymore. Then i figured well screw it keep going. I got out of my zinc chromate paint and my little paint tray and decided i was going to put a drop of Tamiya thinner in the first pallet. I put my brush in the paint then dipped into the thinner (cause all the bad asses thin their paint to get into the nooks, but they also are using an airbrush...) and started going to town with it on the flight deck, different compartment panels, ect. It turned out like crap. The brush strokes were EVERYWHERE, there were parts that were really thick, parts where i had used too much thinner and it was way too thin and looked almost yellow.

So, as you can tell i've done a good amount of research but putting it to practice by myself without a person next to me giving tips has been rough. I even had youtube going with SMConsortium and scale model addict how-to's playing trying to be inspired. Im at the point where i cant figure out what to even be frustrated about. Am i going to have a hard time getting the results i desire without having an airbrush? Anything you guys/gals can throw at me id really appreciate it. Your the first i came to, this forum just about single handedly got me back into the hobby, and its going to keep me in it lol.

THANKS GUYS!

 

[andrei383]

my best advice: Don't Give Up!

we all make mistakes at certain points. with scale modelling, you learn by experience. I have only 3 completed models under my belt, but when i look at them on my shelf every day i could see the progress I've made on each one, and with the models I'm building now I'm more keen on the little details of building, painting, and weathering.

ok, from your post i could see you are doing something good, starting with cheap kits. to me thats a perfect way to start, if you mess up, so be it, its good practice anyways! ;D

from your description, i can only assume that you were trying to go for a too heavy coat of primer in one shot. spray can primers need a little getting used to, there is a certain distance you should be from the part and you should spray in very thin misting coats and gradually build it up to prevent detail loss. try spraying a scrap piece and practice building up light coats of primer.

next, what kind of paint are you using? some paint (such as Tamiya) are notoriously difficult to hand brush while others (like Vallejo) hand brush perfectly. its a matter of experimentation to find the right thinning ratio for hand brushing and i recommend painting a test piece (scrap parts, bottles, etc.) and practice. and make sure you have good brushes as well!

i really hope you dont give up scale modelling, its a very rewarding and fun hobby in the end, its just a matter of practice, practice, and more practice! ;D

 

[Bowsewr]

andrei383 thanks for the response!

I'm definitely not going to give up over the past week I've dumped enough $ into it to stay in it for a while lol. I bought all the paints for the kit in the Tamiya Acrylic 1/2 ounce bottles paints. I'm not really sure what brushes i have i just got some at hobby lobby. I am iffy on buying everything from model shops as in my opinion, a lot is marked up and sold with the name on it when i can get a equal product cheaper if it doesn't say model masters or tamiya. I could be completely wrong but that is my initial opinion. I am going to keep pushing forward and reading on the forums. Thanks again for the reply and advice

 

[Dusky]

If you can buy Tamiya paint, you can probably buy Tamiya Fine White Primer. It is expensive, but it is perfect for scale models in that it primes and doesn't obscure fine details, unless you were to put on a really heavy coat. Any kind of hardware store primer will be cheap, but it will be a pain to use. If you plan on using acrylics, a primer on the exterior of the model and any resin or metal parts is a good idea. However, a primer in areas like the cockpit isn't usually needed.

When you say Tamiya 1/2 oz bottle do you mean the 23ml bottle?

Tamiya acrylics do not brush well at all. They dry too quickly (which can be solved by thinning a bit and using retarder) and the solvents in them tend to reactivate the coat below, even if it is cured. They airbrush beautifully, though.

Most people tend to prefer enamels for brush painting because of the long drying time, but that is changing quickly and the acrylic paint market is ever expanding.

There are a lot of acrylic paints on the market and each one behaves differently and has a different learning curve associated with it. Acrylics also have a harder learning curve than enamels. Akan, Italeri, Model Master, Gunze Aqueous, Tamiya, Vallejo, Lifecolor just to name a few brands. Each one varies in color selection, viscosity, dry time, adhesion, pigments, solvents (Tamiya and Gunze Aqueous are alcohol based acrylics), etc. Your best bet is to buy one or two of a couple brands and try them out. You also want to give the paint time to dry and cure before the next coat or color, otherwise you risk activating the paint coat below and the colors could blend or it will just pull parts of the coat up. Avoiding brush strokes is something even I haven't learned to do.

You can buy cheap brushes at Hobby Lobby, but they will fall apart quickly and they don't have a good brush stroke. Someone here can probably recommend some good brushes to use. I purchased some synthetic Grumbacher Academy Multimedia brushes at Hobby Lobby, but they weren't cheap so I bought them the week they had brushes on sale, which isn't very often. They work fairly well.

Another bad thing about hobby shops is that they will sometimes say whatever they have to in order to sell a kit. A little research can go a long way.

 

[Bowsewr]

thanks pharmpony!

 

[TRM]

Hello Bowsewr!! Welcome btw!!!

Happy to hear you might be in this for the long haul!! This can be one of the most rewarding albeit frustrating hobbies out there!!

With that....

Not sure what happened with the primer...like what was mentioned, maybe a bit heavy...clogged tip....too humid? Was it raining at the time you were priming and/or in a damp garage of basement? These are contributing factor to this as well. I have and still do use standard auto primer from time to time and yes I have an airbrush (AB) with all types of primer for it. I like the ease of it and some of the better primers spray smooth and make a nice solid base for what comes next! I tend to keep the can around 12" or more from the model. Light sprays and never keep my finger on the "trigger" constantly...fan left, finger off, fan right, finger off! Just don;t rush it! Build up the complete coat and then stop! Worst case, you have a couple touch ups after it dries!!

Let's get this one out of the way...if you need to strip back the paint, oven cleaner works well. Place the model in a large zip lock spray the cleaner in and seal...should be cleaned up in no time. Give the model a good bath after she is clean. There are plenty of methods out there, this seams to work well....google the rest!

Hand painting is a tough one, like what was mentioned, brush strokes. The smaller inner parts you may have no issue, once you find the right acrylic or enamel for yourself. The exterior, with no AB, stick with Tamiya or Model Master Rattle Cans or something comparable. You will find close to the color you want and they spray nicely. As for hand painting, Vellejo or Life color might be a good acrylic option for you.

As for brushes...tough one cause the first reaction is to tell you in the world of brushes, you certainly get what you pay for. Agreeing with you on the over priced "name brands"...Micheal's or AC Moore....they have large selections of decent synthetic brushes for any occasion. I think the most expensive brush I bought last was $5 and I just recently bought a set of about 15 of decent quality brushes. I tend to toss them when the tip ends up not sharp anymore...but with a little care they should last for a while. Check AK Interactive USA as well...Awesome brushes for cheap money!

Pheew! Keep at it, it get easier. Building is a good thing to concentrate on when you are working on figuring out the painting end of things. Getting joints to be tight, limiting glue marks, sanding, etc........the rest falls into place!! And yeah, keep asking questions!!!

 

[Bowsewr]

Thanks TRM for the advice and pep talk! I have lots of learning to do tahts for sure. I thought my hours upon hours of research time prior to starting was going to get me started running. NOPE lol. But thats why i joined the forum cause of all the great people on here willing to help.

Thanks all. ill keep this project updated with pictures in next few days.

 

[SteelSnail]

Don't give up. You are away from your comfort zone but on your way to a great journey.

Actually I never use primer for the interior but anyway. TRM and andrei383 gave good advice for using spray cans and as PharmPony mentions try to go for a Tamiya fine primer. Now, some spray cans loose a little bit of pressure constantly and if that is your case you won't get an even finish not matter how good is your technique. Unfortunately that happened to me. So, when you buy spray cans avoid old looking ones.

Regarding brushes I have to confess that even though I own a hobby shop I go to a local small arts shop for advice. You want brushes that can take different types of thinner/paints.

And yes, Tamiya is hard to brush paint but try mixing two drops of tamiya paint with one drop of purified water. Water won't dry as fast as thinner and will give you a little more time to work. Add water or paint as you see fit.

Old Revell or Airfix kits are inexpensive but can be very challenging for an inexperienced person. Trying to align the parts properly and filling gaps can be troublesome. Also you choose a big kit. Consider some of the "Easy Assembly" kits from Hobbyboss. The 1/72 are $10 MSRP and the 1/48 $23 MSRP.

I don't think removing the paint is a good idea at this point. You can easily get frustrated if you go back and don't see any progress.

 

[keith41]

Bowsewr,

I'm in the same boat you are as far as starting again in modeling. I bought my first kit about 3 weeks ago (5 German WW2 figures.) I, too, have spent a good chunka change for my start up costs.

I've made the EXACT imperfections you have made - so you're not alone. It can be a little frustrating.

However, my mindset was this.... I'm going to use this first kit as a "dry run", meaning, I know I'm going to screw some things up, but that's too be expected. And, I'll just learn as I go.

It was also kinda intimadating to compare my results with the unbelievable painting skills of the SMA members. But, some of these guys/gals have been doing this for years...and years...and years.

Keep your chin up and keep going! This is a great hobby!

 

[trainman]

Keep at it you’ll get there eventually. I’ve just started using acrylics myself and yes it is very frustrating at times. Sometimes it feels like I have to relearn to paint all over again. Pierre

 

[dkev]

I've tried several aerosol primers. Tamiya fine surface primer is good but expensive. Your typical off the shelf generic spray primers are way too rough, I think. But I find that Krylon Camouflage urtra-flat paint works awesome. It bonds really well and I've had no issues with either Vallejo or Tamiya paints bonding to it. I get mine at O'reily auto parts. As far thinning Tamiya for brushing, I've never had to do it. But everyone has their own methods.

 

[ahmed malik]

hey bowsewr,
welcome to this new hobby,
I did the exact same thing you did when i started out and spent £30 on tamiya paints, which i thought were amazing cos of the brand tamiya... i was wrong.
for paints i would recommend vallejo or revell aqua colour. i would recommend vallejo for the small details, and revell aqua colours for the big things, Revell is easier to brush and more forgiving, but you can get much better results with vallejo...

Although if you are going to use enamels, get some humbrol enamels. I haven't used them but heard lots of things about them.

also, i would recommend watching this video... How to hand paint Gunpla/Mecha
it covers quite a lot of stuff...


as for primer tamiya fine primer is the best...

and finally, use good quality brushes, you don't need sabel but get a decent one, and get some masters brush cleaner, it really helps. there are tutorials on how to use it on youtube.

 

[Phaze]

Thanks for the video link. I've never watered down my paint. I thought that because I brushed the paint on, that was why it looked so thick... I never realized it should be so watered down.

 

[the Baron]

I only skimmed the posts after your first, because I have to cut short, but I recommend using rattle cans to paint your Black Widow, rather than hand-brushing, and masking as necessary. Hand-brushing is not impossible, and it doesn't automatically lead to less than optimal results, but I think if you're starting out, spraying might be easier for you. It was for me. And if you do want to move to an airbrush at some point, some of the techniques are very similar, because both methods use air under pressure to apply aerosoled paint to the surface.

Just my mustard, as the Germans say.

 

[TBadger]

Stick with it. My first model, I bit off more than I could chew...I've only done this for a year and my "skill" has improved greatly. Just look at my first posts about the speeder and my current Buffalo build in the Armor section. I owe it all to the kind people of this forum, my dedication to practice, and PATIENCE.

* if you're truly going to stick with the hobby, grab a Master G22 off eBay and a cheap pancake compressor from Harbor Freight....an airbrush is a great tool and the compressor is multi use *

 

[the Baron]

* if you're truly going to stick with the hobby, grab a Master G22 off eBay and a cheap pancake compressor from Harbor Freight....an airbrush is a great tool and the compressor is multi use *

Second that! You can achieve such great effects with an airbrush, it's a good investment, and it's worth the money to invest in a good brush, too. You might have to spend a little more up front, but you'll get your money back over many years of use.

 

[hooterville75]

* if you're truly going to stick with the hobby, grab a Master G22 off eBay and a cheap pancake compressor from Harbor Freight....an airbrush is a great tool and the compressor is multi use *

Second that! You can achieve such great effects with an airbrush, it's a good investment, and it's worth the money to invest in a good brush, too. You might have to spend a little more up front, but you'll get your money back over many years of use.

Ive actually read quite a few great reviews on the Master line of Airbrushes from TCP Global with the good reviews outweighing the bad reviews. While there are better brands available for a beginning model builder that cant or dont want to lay a hundred or more out for a airbrush to begin I dont think Id hesitate to start with a Master. Badger of course is my brand of choice and you cant go wrong getting a badger any model.