Help with designing a model - Steampunk

[maea]

Hello modelers!

I came here to this forum hoping for some help and pointers.

I am a writer and my current work is fantasy crime novel with some steampunk elements. I had this great idea for a new type of carriage that I want to try to build into a model. This would help a lot with writing out scenes with said carriage.

How should I proceed?
Do you know anyone who does imaginary models?
If I want a working prototype, what should I do?
Is this the right type of community for this kind of thing or should I look elsewhere?

I am a complete noob on the subject and any pointers are greatly appreciated!

T:M

 

[urumomo]

Welcome to SMA !

could you share some images with us ?
something similar so we have a starting point ?
How big do you want the model to be ?

 

[BarleyBop]

Welcome to the Addict.

 

[maea]

The idea is to have two spheres, one inside the other, which acts sort of like a gyroscope. The outer sphere would "run along" a track with "rollercoaster" wheels and people would travel inside (in the fantasy world).

As for size, maybe 10cm across with the sphere?

(Sorry for poor pics, I suck at drawing)

 

[WtShark]

Wow-
Welcome to SMA!!
Have you tried asking your AI App (whichever one you have) to draw a prototype image?

I'm sure you'll find a great starting point here-

 

[maea]

I guess I could use AI, although getting it right with out the right vocabulary might be tricky.

What sort of an image do I need to create a prototype? Measurements? Dimensions? Technical details?

 

[maea]

Oh my, these are horrible...

I guess the concept of a monorail was too much for the AI.
These also lack the proper technical details.

I tried! I really did!

However, I do know what is should look like in my head, I just don't know how to proceed.

Start with a very rough paper concept? Then go from there?

 

[Jakko]

If the track would be double, the vehicle wouldn't need wheels: the sphere itself would be the wheel — assuming it can be turned from the inside without the inner sphere¹ moving. That would need some kind of counterrotating mass(es), probably between the two spheres, else Newton's third law says that the sphere on the inside will rotate opposite to the one on the outside, and everyone in the vehicle would be turned upside down and back the right way up all the time

Essentially, something like this (front view on the left, side view on the right):

The black spheres/shaded rectangles are the rails the whole thing rides on. The green part is the outer sphere that turns "forward" to act as a giant wheel, the white one is the inner that should remain stationary. The red bar/circle is one possible way to do the counterweight, as a ring turning "rearward" between the two spheres. The thing is that the counterweight would need to be massive enough and spin fast enough to have the same angular momentum as the green sphere, else the white inner part would revolve. (All this assumes the engine is inside the white sphere and drives the green sphere and red ring somehow.)

Accelerating and braking would be tricky, probably involving a lot of rocking backward and forward for the white sphere and anyone sitting in it.

---

¹ Not the BattleTech one

 

[maea]

Thanks @Jakko for your input!

Luckily, I am a writer and can use "magic" to solve a few technical problems...

My initial idea with the rail was to enable the full rotation of the sphere any which way (ie. the rail running underneath and then over the sphere for cool effect. And maybe using something like ballbearings to separate the two spheres so the inner one could stay upright no matter where the rail goes.

This is why I need the prototype, to test out my ideas.
(What it would look like, what it would feel like, would it need a similar point-to-point travel like gondolas in switzerland, how can I break it for fun plot reasons [someone dangling out of a broken one or being killed by sabotage when the inner sphere gets stuck etc.]]

Am I making any sense?

 

[urumomo]

the outer sphere has some liquid in it that the inner sphere floats on and is ballasted so the cabin is always upright .

 

[Jakko]

Luckily, I am a writer and can use "magic" to solve a few technical problems...

True, but it helps if that magic doesn't obviously violate basic physics (Unless you're writing stories in a world with "actual" magic, of course.)

My initial idea with the rail was to enable the full rotation of the sphere any which way (ie. the rail running underneath and then over the sphere for cool effect.

If the vehicle is to be able to hang from the rail then it will need some kind of wheels on the opposite side of it, of course. This would provide a solution to the problem of the inner sphere counter-rotating without needing a rotating counterweight: by having the wheels attached to the inner sphere, via a pivot that protrudes through a hole in the outer sphere, torque can be transferred to the rail without the inner sphere needing to move. However, to make the inner sphere hang upside down would probably require three concentric spheres.

Alternatively:

the outer sphere has some liquid in it that the inner sphere floats on and is ballasted so the cabin is always upright .

Ballast works to keep the passenger compartment upright if the outer sphere is rotated by means of an external force. But when this force originates inside the inner sphere, that will rotate in the opposite direction. Compare to a helicopter: those need a tail rotor (or two rotors) because the engine is in the fuselage but turns the rotor on top. As a result, the fuselage wants to turn in the opposite direction. The same thing would happen with a spherical vehicle if the engine is inside the inner sphere.

Ballast gives a simpler way to do it for the spherical vehicle, but that will need the external rollers again to clamp the outer sphere to the rail. The motor can then be on the outrigger that also has the wheels that clamp the vehicle to the rail, and drives the outer sphere from there. The inside sphere can then be simply ballasted and sit on some kind of bearings, inside a bubble of liquid or something like that with just a weight at the bottom to keep it upright.

 

[urumomo]

oy vey
I was going to add that it can be done since there is magic available , but knew that was a given .
I forgot about Jakko

I avoid magic since it results in injury , death and lawsuits

 

[RacerX]

Will this help?

 

[urumomo]

what's with all the locomotion forces , anyways ?
The outer sphere moves along the track , at any orientation , and the inner one just floats there .
all the engineering holes are filled with magic -- the frictionless liquid unaliving someone in the story , fur sure .
Like the carriages on the London Eye but the outer shell can move anywhcihway

 

[Edbert]

If it is to move along a rail or cable, the propulsion could be magnetic? The levitation could be, that is existing tech, not magic. But levitation is not propulsion, so what makes it move, accelerate/decelerate, change directions?

 

[Blackbeard]

I like the magnetic thought or some anti-gravity propulsion? I like the idea of this futuristic steampunk vehicle.
The storyline must be interesting if such a vehicle is in it.

 

[maea]

Will this help? View attachment 196574View attachment 196575

Yes!

If this is possible, just take it into a full sphere and put it in a rail!

 

[maea]

If it is to move along a rail or cable, the propulsion could be magnetic? The levitation could be, that is existing tech, not magic. But levitation is not propulsion, so what makes it move, accelerate/decelerate, change directions?

Yes. Or if its only from point a to point b like gondolas, the engines can be somewhere else. Or attached outside the device. Or use chains similar like rollercoasters get up the initial incline. Or the rail could use some sort of serrated teeth for inclines.

 

[maea]

I like the magnetic thought or some anti-gravity propulsion? I like the idea of this futuristic steampunk vehicle.
The storyline must be interesting if such a vehicle is in it.

Thank you!

Quick overview of the world.
Items can contain magic that either has outward or inward effects. So no mages casting spells but factory workers creating items that contain spells.
ie. Raincoat that repels water. A talisman that gives superhuman powers (for a limited time). An engine that outputs extraordinary amounts of energy.

 

[maea]

Here are some initial pencil drawings that I made.

 

[Jakko]

since there is magic available

Is there? This has not been clearly stated, only that "magic"-in-quotes can be used in the writing. I read that as meaning: "It doesn't need to be 100% mechanically possible, minor problems can be ignored in the interest of the story." Which is why I'm trying to come up with a way that would at least look like it would be possible IRL. In any case, if magic is a major factor, then to come up with a plausible way for this to work, we'd need an idea of what magic can and can't do in the setting.

It probably helps to add that my background, as relevant to this subject, is in roleplaying games (not the computer kind, the real kind) where if the world seems to be working along realistic lines, players often expect a plausible explanation for things instead of "it's magic!"

 

[maea]

Is there? This has not been clearly stated, only that "magic"-in-quotes can be used in the writing. I read that as meaning: "It doesn't need to be 100% mechanically possible, minor problems can be ignored in the interest of the story." Which is why I'm trying to come up with a way that would at least look like it would be possible IRL. In any case, if magic is a major factor, then to come up with a plausible way for this to work, we'd need an idea of what magic can and can't do in the setting.

It probably helps to add that my background, as relevant to this subject, is in roleplaying games (not the computer kind, the real kind) where if the world seems to be working along realistic lines, players often expect a plausible explanation for things instead of "it's magic!"

"It doesn't need to be 100% mechanically possible, minor problems can be ignored explained with magical components in the interest of the story."This is what I am trying to achieve as much as possible. So that the reader can follow along with common sense what is happening and that the answer is not always "because magic". That when the machine breaks and "the magical component" stops working, real life consequences occur.

So not "a flying sphere ball with wings flying into space bc of magic" but a semi-realistic transport device that needs rails, that needs a motor, that needs technological components in order to work and those components can break due to semi-realistic reasons.

But when it comes to the actual technology and what is closest to it in IRL? I have very little knowledge and opinions for that. I am coming to this from a story/plotpoint/worldbuilding perspective.

And the magic system is still in development so general guidelines maybe but not clear rules so far.

 

[maea]

Oh, and I am very grateful for everyone helping me out with this.

Thank you so much!

 

[WtShark]

You've got a fantastic idea working now..... A vision... the more you describe it and discuss it, the closer you're getting.
I see what you mean with AI, it's limiting and doesn't always comprehend the idea, vs. what you're describing. But, you're on the right track, (no pun intended).

 

[maea]

How would you guys suggest I start building a prototype?

Paper?
Play-doh?
More drawings?

I have no idea of any kind of process.

 

[WtShark]

For prototyping, sketches are best, then maybe moving to clay/play doh?
The alternative would have a professional cad or other similar software rendered by an expert... Someone who can draw an idea and render it to a printer?
If you're able to sculpt a rough concept, that's certainly helpful.
Know anyone with a 3d printer you can ask to make you a prototype?
Or you can grab some styrene sheets, rods, tubes, etc. some sanders and glue and start building it yourself

 

[WtShark]

I took about 5 minutes, literally and roughed out a sketch with my 30 year old Paint Shop Pro.
I have no idea how close to what you're envisioning this is, but I took a stab at it.
I'd imagine the metal would be antiqued brass/copper, the gears and mechanical steam, dirty, greasy and the interior, that opulent Jules Verne style, thick burgundy upholstery, with Cherry and Oak woods, lots of polished brass, etc...
Am I in the ballpark?

 

[RacerX]

How would you guys suggest I start building a prototype?

Paper?
Play-doh?
More drawings?

I have no idea of any kind of process.

Toy department at your local department store. Try a hamster ball to .

 

[maea]

I took about 5 minutes, literally and roughed out a sketch with my 30 year old Paint Shop Pro.
I have no idea how close to what you're envisioning this is, but I took a stab at it.
I'd imagine the metal would be antiqued brass/copper, the gears and mechanical steam, dirty, greasy and the interior, that opulent Jules Verne style, thick burgundy upholstery, with Cherry and Oak woods, lots of polished brass, etc...
Am I in the ballpark?



View attachment 196658

The description is pretty good! The picture is more difficult point. Like I said, I struggle with technical explanations and drawings as well... BUT that's entirely on me.

 

[RacerX]

I took about 5 minutes, literally and roughed out a sketch with my 30 year old Paint Shop Pro.
I have no idea how close to what you're envisioning this is, but I took a stab at it.
I'd imagine the metal would be antiqued brass/copper, the gears and mechanical steam, dirty, greasy and the interior, that opulent Jules Verne style, thick burgundy upholstery, with Cherry and Oak woods, lots of polished brass, etc...
Am I in the ballpark?



View attachment 196658

From his description it sounds like he was thinking rails top and bottom, so the passenger carriage could move in any direction inside the ball wile it was traveling were ever it was going on the rails. And yea the time machine look would be sweet.