Pick up that brush, repeat 2024-12

[BarleyBop]

Think I'll have learned anything by the time I get through this flash mob?

Either they are line dancing, or door crashing a Black Friday Sale at the hobby store!

I wasn't kidding about being on an Italian binge!
Okay, I can't possibly use all of them, but the experience I gain will be worth it! I hope!

 

[BarleyBop]

... so, switching threads for a while, the Topo figures thrown back in with their buds, added to the queue, subjected to my crazy notion that oils are the way to go for faces, exposed arms and legs.
Most of them volunteered for the experiment... after a few days, their personalities starting to develop.

It will be a while before they are ready for the limelight, but I'm trying to apply some of the Bannerman techniques in the resources recommended by @Steve Ski .
Of course my starting point with these is different, but some nice pointers for using oils.
I will probably finish up the uniforms in acrylic, with possibly a few highlights in oil.
Taking my time.

 

[BarleyBop]

...so Rocco is coming along

 

[BarleyBop]

Roberto, early graying at the temples, seems to have seen, and know too much...

 

[BarleyBop]

...so easy to get ahead of myself, oil doesn't dry that fast! Can check on Giovanni in a few days for touch ups...

 

[Steve Ski]

Ya, Buddy! You'll knock that learning curve in half, if not better. That is the fastest way to perfect your techniques and style. Ruck On, Barley, Ruck On!

 

[BarleyBop]

So I'd named this guy Roberto... then I thought he should have a mole... then I looked up DeNiro... Robert!

Now my model making is free associating!

And now I know what he's thinking: "When this stinking war is over, I'm going to America, and I'm gonna drive my own taxi!"

 

[BarleyBop]

Gonna have to warm up Mr. Tanker going for Guy Fawkes AKA 'Anonymous' look.
And somehow the lad from northern Italy looks more like a Yury.
Solvents getting to me!

 

[BarleyBop]

A bit of colour correction, boosted my cheaters to max (2.75x).
Tomorrow night I might try evening out the brush marks. If you zoom in, oils look like oils, but also like his skin is flaking!
Part of the learning with oils is not just the colour mixing and blending, but also how they get carried to the surface, how they dry, how they sit on and move from the brush.

I knew this stuff 45 years ago, but I seem to have to relearn it... then again, I wasn't painting tiny figures, it was on 36"x48" (and larger) canvas and masonite boards!

I am remembering now how much I loved mixing colours. I'd forgotten how much easier it is to mix subtle variations of hue, tint and shade with oils... without the need for extenders, retarders and wet palettes.

And for skin tones, the depth and warmth of oils so different from the flatness and uniformity of acrylic. Of course, I find these properties of acrylic make for a predictable and dependable medium when painting vehicles and uniforms.

Even my basic oil set is proving pretty adequate for what I want to do!

Tiny amounts of Burnt Umber, Titanuum White, Black, Yellow Ochre, Magenta and Pthalo Blue... and oils stay workable for a few days!

Of course that also means at least a week before they are mostly dry on the figures. Probably longer.

So 7 of my horde now sporting oil, another 21 to experiment with!

 

[Steve Ski]

This set is moving right along, Barley.

You do things a bit differently than I do, but that's going to be normal for all of us, whatever works for us is how it gets done. If I may make an observation, the one thing that sticks out right away is the amount of paint you have on your brush. The brush marks are visible, but that's is an easy fix. I never leach off the oils from my pallet, I use wax paper taped to a card board backing. So, mine will be thinner going onto the brush anyway, but I basically stain the surface, vs actually painting it. You will always want to remove any lint or brush marks as soon as you see them. This will help with the smooth transition between tones and make blending much easier. Like I said, this is an easy fix, you're doing good, Amigo.

And you are correct, Barley, there really is no need for a rainbow of colors, just some basic ones, everything else can be made to order. Keep at it, Ruck On!

 

[BarleyBop]

the amount of paint you have on your brush.

yeah, that's a tough one! as you say, it is more akin to staining than painting. Great advice!
Brush strokes were a feature of landscapes and still-lifes, not at this scale!

 

[Steve Ski]

No worries, just a mind set change.

 

[Deleted member 11187]

This one skipped by me.

A Masters Class. I am all in.
They are looking good BB. I can see where this is going. This should come along easily enough with your prior experience.
Steve, thank you for letting us look over your shoulder here.
By leaching, do you let the oil in the paints soak out into the paper and cardboard?

 

[BarleyBop]

By leaching

My interpretation is that by mixing on wax paper, the oil doesn't leach away, and as Steve says, that means the paint is thinner, not as viscous as mine, (which is why I find it harder to not have brush marks).
For the next batch of dudes I'll try the wax paper, and that should clarify it.
@Steve Ski ?

 

[Deleted member 11187]

My interpretation is that by mixing on wax paper, the oil doesn't leach away, and as Steve says, that means the paint is thinner, not as viscous as mine, (which is why I find it harder to not have brush marks).
For the next batch of dudes I'll try the wax paper, and that should clarify it.
@Steve Ski ?

So, you want the oil?
Okay. I was under the wrong impression.
My bad.
You don't want the oil in dry brushing or dot staining.

 

[BarleyBop]

I am all in

Pull up a brush and join the fun!
And post 'em here, as if we really were in a class together if you want!

This whole thread was just me learning on some unlucky Italians!

I'm also going to try and up my game on uniforms... mostly with acrylic, but possibly some shadow and highlight in oil.
Also looking at some of the challenges @Jakko was talking about with blending tonal values and light and shade.

 

[Deleted member 11187]

Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity.
But, I don't have anything ready yet. Trimmed up, primed, blah, blah, etc.
A Buddy of mine has gone to Spain a couple times to a seminar/school that I believe it is Andrea figures and paints puts together.
I've always been intrigued by it.
I believe you guys are Steve, yourself, Jakko and others here, that build dioramas.
The whole package, so to speak, is the highest of our art form.
Not to take away from the stand alone or the automotive builds, but the diorama is the penultimate of our craft.
Figures is part of the dealy-o.

 

[Jakko]

FWIW, I don't normally build dioramas anymore — I don't even have the room to put my built models by themselves without major reshuffling and putting another model in a box in the attic, never mind if they're on a base. The one with the Panzer II I've almost completed is an exception caused by it being a nostalgic Tamiya group build, which I decided to combine with an idea I had ages ago to make an even more nostalgic (for me) model. I'm already wondering where I'll put it once I've finished it …

 

[BarleyBop]

Figures is part of the dealy-o

Yup, I hear ya. I've a ways to go before trying my hand at dios, and figures are a step along the way.

I'm very much of the enjoy the journey sort, and if I get to a destination that looks good, well, bonus! It definitely adds to the enjoyment if I don't sweat the results, and allows me to concentrate on the the little steps along the way.

Like you, I marvel at all the builds I see on here, and I do like the drama and story afforded by additional elements like stowage, weathering, figures and settings. Kinda like the richness of a novel compared to a short story, a poem, or a song.
But each are worthy endeavors in their own right, and offer a special experience in their creation.

So we do what we gotta do, and share some laughs along the way!

 

[blakeh1]

Kudos, you did impressive work with the facial features and skin tones. I especially love the work on the eyes, eyebrows and mouths. They can be hard to get looking right but you nailed them. Also the Robert De Niro mole was a nice touch

Don't sweat the brush work too much.
Brush work smoothing can be refined and eliminated over time. You mastered the hard part of painting the details
Zoomed in like this with such bright lighting is always tough and in some ways does not really represent what it looks like in person. I always find things in my own stuff that I thought looked near perfect in person with normal lighting, but then find lumpy or rough surfaces when zoomed in
For me it's like turning the bright bar/pub lights on at 2 AM

 

[BarleyBop]

bright bar/pub lights on at 2 AM

Ha, what's that Leonard Cohen line from his song 'Closing time'?

"She's a hundred, but she's wearing something tight"​

Thanks for the encouragement, we learn as we go!

 

[Steve Ski]

Wow, a lot of great questions and comments on this subject, so please allow me to clarify some of my comments. Sometimes I can think it better than I can type it, lol.

With respect for Mr. Barley, I don't want to jack his thread, but I would like to clear up some questions and make some clarification, if I may.

This one skipped by me.

A Masters Class. I am all in.
They are looking good BB. I can see where this is going. This should come along easily enough with your prior experience.
Steve, thank you for letting us look over your shoulder here.
By leaching, do you let the oil in the paints soak out into the paper and cardboard?

Peppy, there's going to be all kinds of techniques used by everyone, so this is how I personally approach figure painting, the palate specifically. You can use a plastic lid, cardboard with wax paper, anything that will not leach, draw off, the oils. A dry oil application, or dry palate, would be used for weathering rigs, structures, etc., but I never run a dry palate when painting figures. I hope that is a much better explanation than I left before.

Don't sweat the brush work too much.
Brush work smoothing can be refined and eliminated over time. You mastered the hard part of painting the details
Zoomed in like this with such bright lighting is always tough and in some ways does not really represent what it looks like in person. I always find things in my own stuff that I thought looked near perfect in person with normal lighting, but then find lumpy or rough surfaces when zoomed in
For me it's like turning the bright bar/pub lights on at 2 AM

I would like to comment on our differing views concerning this approach to figure painting, if I may. I will respectfully disagree with Mr. Blake on this approach, for the following reasons.
1) If your personal goal is to learn to paint great figures and keep learning, that goal is attainable, but it won't happen overnight. We are always learning, so take the next uncomfortable step to stretch your learning curve outward. With every figure you paint you should be looking back at the prior to see what needs improvement and keep pushing the edge of your comfort zone. Such as in life, same as in brush work, imho.
2) We/I play to the camera, so I want everything within that frame to be as exceptional and specific as possible, meaning I "try" not to pass off less than perfect work. Do I/we ever attain that? No, not really. Nobody I know walks on water but One, but this is a goal to shoot for, leading back to point no.1.
3) Because you will probably never be here in person to physically see my work, nor anybody's work, unless at a competition or convention, you won't get the advantage of seeing that work from a distance. Therefore, and I've said this before, personally, I "play" to the camera. In other words, I'm telling a story, dictating how you perceive that story, and I have total control of how I want you to personally view my work within that story, so I need to be "up close and personal" with all my photos, otherwise the point is mute and your drive to improve suffers, if that is your intention from the beginning.

I hope this is a little more helpful than my last comments.

I apologize for being long winded. Barley, the set is looking great, keep at it!

 

[BarleyBop]

keep at it

Will do!
No need to apologize, great to have a convo and advice, even if a little asynchronous!

@blakeh1 , @Peppylepugh , everyone, keep your comments and suggestions coming!
I think its great to discuss different approaches, and we aren't the only ones benefiting from the exchange...

For any of us who came through school or a career in art/design, and possibly more so for those who didn't, honest critique is essential to learn, progress, and reassess what we already know, as well as validate our knowledge gained through experience.
Like the samurai who surrendered their sword at the entrance to the teahouse, we park our egos at the door.

My personal aspiration for this forum and I have heard others say it countless times in different ways, is that we are all on an equal footing, in a safe, enjoyable environment that will help us all reach our model building goals.

Now back to the add-action!

 

[blakeh1]

Wow, a lot of great questions and comments on this subject, so please allow me to clarify some of my comments. Sometimes I can think it better than I can type it, lol.

With respect for Mr. Barley, I don't want to jack his thread, but I would like to clear up some questions and make some clarification, if I may.

Peppy, there's going to be all kinds of techniques used by everyone, so this is how I personally approach figure painting, the palate specifically. You can use a plastic lid, cardboard with wax paper, anything that will not leach, draw off, the oils. A dry oil application, or dry palate, would be used for weathering rigs, structures, etc., but I never run a dry palate when painting figures. I hope that is a much better explanation than I left before.


I would like to comment on our differing views concerning this approach to figure painting, if I may. I will respectfully disagree with Mr. Blake on this approach, for the following reasons.
1) If your personal goal is to learn to paint great figures and keep learning, that goal is attainable, but it won't happen overnight. We are always learning, so take the next uncomfortable step to stretch your learning curve outward. With every figure you paint you should be looking back at the prior to see what needs improvement and keep pushing the edge of your comfort zone. Such as in life, same as in brush work, imho.
2) We/I play to the camera, so I want everything within that frame to be as exceptional and specific as possible, meaning I "try" not to pass off less than perfect work. Do I/we ever attain that? No, not really. Nobody I know walks on water but One, but this is a goal to shoot for, leading back to point no.1.
3) Because you will probably never be here in person to physically see my work, nor anybody's work, unless at a competition or convention, you won't get the advantage of seeing that work from a distance. Therefore, and I've said this before, personally, I "play" to the camera. In other words, I'm telling a story, dictating how you perceive that story, and I have total control of how I want you to personally view my work within that story, so I need to be "up close and personal" with all my photos, otherwise the point is mute and your drive to improve suffers, if that is your intention from the beginning.

I hope this is a little more helpful than my last comments.

I apologize for being long winded. Barley, the set is looking great, keep at it!

I agree with that philosophy, I just might have worded it poorly
A little clarification for this

"Don't sweat the brush work too much.
Brush work smoothing can be refined and eliminated over time. You mastered the hard part of painting the details"

i.e. don't get discouraged. with time and effort it can be improved to the point where zoomed in looks just as good (something I still am striving for)

I mainly post pics of my work so I can take a more critical look at it. There is a lot of stuff the camera can catch that is missed in person.
I often catch details I missed or did sloppily when I am cropping and browsing pics to post
So it is definitely a great tool to help improve

On the flip side, there are sometimes things that need to be exaggerated for the camera, or painted a certain way to look better in camera. I tend to shy away from things like that. For example, I try to tone down the contrasted weathering in Star Wars stuff or the contrast in oddly colored panels that almost disappeared in the final films, but had to be done that way to achieve the shot.

Since I do a lot of gaming with people in person, in some cases I paint to what I refer to as "table top" quality so it looks decent enough in person on the table

In the end you are correct, the important bit is to always try to out do yourself and your expectations in order to improve.
For example, no matter how well I may think I did something, with a short browser search I can always find someone who has done it better, and I can use that to motivate myself

 

[Steve Ski]

Well said, Mr. Blake, I totally agree. Heck, we forgot one thing, have fun!

 

[BarleyBop]

So did a bit acrylic on uniforms... trying to keep it loose and blended, trying out an added dab of extender (genetic art store bulk size) to slow down the process...

Seems to work, gives a bit of time to blend very thin coats.

These are the dudes for Topolino, one standing in back, the other exiting driver seat.

Started on accessories and weapons too.
After completing acrylics, will have to finish with oil touch ups, and let that dry another week!

 

[Jakko]

Interesting that the glazing liquid does a lot more in French than in English and Spanish

 

[BarleyBop]

Interesting that the glazing liquid does a lot more in French than in English and Spanish

Having worked as a graphic artist for the federal government (with enforced bilingualism policies), it is no surprise... and I once did a traveling trilingual exhibit on Monarch butterflies, (papillons, mariposas) that toured Canada, the US and Mexico... to finally be installed in the Children's Museum in Mexico City. I had to keep reminding research and writing staff to keep it succinct! There is only so much room on text panels!

 

[Jakko]

Here in Europe, it's not at all surprising to have labels in two or three (or more) languages on anything, but usually they say much the same thing rather than one of them being a lot more detailed than the others

 

[blakeh1]

Much smoother looking!

I use the Vallejo glazing medium myself. really helps with washes as well so it stays a bit translucent and ink like for a staining quality