Anyone using a vinyl or frisket cutter here?

[Edbert]

I've heard good things about the cricket, or to be accurate the "Cricut". But it looks to be very much applique oriented not mask oriented. But I simply do not know.

I see good reviews by "modelers", but many of them say to use sheets of Tamiya "tape" that comes in sheets, at several dollars per sheet. NTY!

Just looking for advice, if any of you have dabbled.

 

[airdave]

AS an ex-airbrusher/signpainter, yes, I used cutter cut stencils and paintmasks A LOT!
But our printer cutter was 8ft long!

For small stuff, like scale models, it gets more difficult to use sign vinyl and pro grade paint masks.
The material can be just too thick if it has to go around very tight curves and curved surfaces.
Hand cutting with Tamiya Tape and the likes might be a better option.
Even when I painted cars and bikes, I would lay out designs (like flames) with fineline tapes (by hand/eye).

With the advent of vehicle wraps, the industry has migrated to much thinner vinyls, so that helps.
You can buy small quantities of vinyls and paint mask material (for Cricut) at your local craft store.
These can be used for hand cut stencils, etc.

My daughter is a Cricut expert...makes paint masks to spray paint knick knacks, and makes vinyl appliques.
Vinyls for the cricut machine are thinner but still aren't designed to be paint masks for small curved surfaces.

Anyway, the issue is inputting a proper vector design already at the correct scale.
You need to design stencils and paint masks and then send them to cricut as scalable vector graphics (SVG) for the best results.
My daughter is always asking me to design logo and elements for for sticker designs (which I send to her as SVGs)
(I work in CorelDraw, I'm a digital graphic artist now)

So, no, I don't have any hands-on experience using the cricut in modeling, but if there is anything I can ask my daughter for you...

 

[Edbert]

Thanks superdave!

I've been reading and there are different materials for flat surfaces than irregular or curved ones. I have also see companies like "Montex" have canopy mask sets where their vinyl does not adhere to complex curved areas while it works great on relatively flat ones.

I also used CorelDraw when I was a graphic designer, but that was the late 1980s-1993 or so when I last worked with vector graphics. I was thiking of it for lettering and insignias. I am reading that some people are literally scanning their decal sheet and making their stencils.

Regarding thick material, I'm also wondering if frisket paper (designed for use on illustration board or similar) would be too thin. if it is not too thin the adhesive might be too weak to prevent bleeds. Will have to experiment.

 

[Jakko]

My daughter is a Cricut expert...

In that case, I have a question Would it be feasible to use such a machine to make paint masks for very small letters, call it 2 to 3 mm high? For example, to cut a stencil from masking tape that can be stuck to the model for spraying registration numbers, vehicle names, etc.

Oh, and another question: could these machines be used to cut plastic card of up to about a millimetre thick? Not to the tiny sizes of letters, of course — but I'm wondering if it could be used to accurately cut parts for scratchbuilding tank hulls and turrets, that sort of thing.

 

[Edbert]

Smaller than 3mm might be an issue, and the unit I am looking at probably cannot cut plastic thicker/harder than acetate. But, they make some that can cut leather, so there's a version that can. Obviously bigger and stronger means less detail and fine precision.

Edit:
There's a way you can use dry-transfer paper and your household printer to make really small stuff, assuming you have the font. But you'll either need the font or create outlines with a vector graphic for the cricut too.

 

[Jakko]

The graphics side of it is not a problem for me — I know my way around Adobe Illustrator, have an extensive collection of fonts and, if I would need a lot of letters not available in an existing font, I have Glyphs

For some years I've occasionally looked at both cutting plotters and (cheap) laser cutters, but both have problems for what I want to do with them: a cutting plotter probably can't do the small stuff I want for stencils, while I've read that a laser cutter can't be used on polystyrene plate (unless it has a UV laser, IIRC, but those are hideously expensive).

 

[airdave]

Cutting paint stencils/masks would be easy enough with a Cricut.
Getting the dimensions right, might require some trial and error.
I've seen my daughter cut some very fine stuff, but I think you are limited to Cricut's vinyls for this.

Paint mask vinyls were generally a lower tack, non-permanent adhesion.
I don't know whether Cricut has this product.
Regular vinyl will work, however I always ran the risk of lifting paint if the regular sign vinyl was allowed to cure too long.

Cutting 1mm material depth is out of the question.
Even larger plotters would have issue with that (without changing to more expensive deep cut knife heads).
Thick material also does not stay in place well during cutting and/or printing.
Something that thick is general cut by laser.

My buddy sells pre-cut 1mm thick chipboard "Formers" for paper model kits.
*the internal frames, bulkheads, ribs, spars, etc
And he cuts these sheets with a laser cutter.

 

[Littlemarten]

Regarding thick material, I'm also wondering if frisket paper (designed for use on illustration board or similar) would be too thin. if it is not too thin the adhesive might be too weak to prevent bleeds. Will have to experiment.

I've used Frisket film to make masks. If it's not too old (age dries out the adhesive) but mostly for relatively flat areas. For highly curved surfaces, I use tape, either vinyl or paper, occasionally electrical. It's been years since I used Frisket.

I do use Parafilm M™ a lot where the demarcation lines are sharp. I'm also fond of liquid masks.

 

[Jakko]

Cutting paint stencils/masks would be easy enough with a Cricut.

After having read about these plotters some years ago, I was mainly wondering if you would be able to get small letter shapes out without the rest of the stencil falling apart. This because, as I understand it, the knife blade swivels so the plotter has to put it slightly ahead of where the cut needs to start, and moves it to slightly beyond the end of the cut as well, to ensure the whole line is cut. But that, I would think, potentially slices up a small stencil into tiny sections that will be impossible to reassemble?

Cutting 1mm material depth is out of the question.
(…)
Something that thick is general cut by laser.

Except, like I said, affordable laser cutters appear to be incompatible with polystyrene sheet Not many other plastics, but from some reading it seems they can't cut polystyrene smoothly and the plastic will give of dangerous vapours at that.

 

[urumomo]

After having read about these plotters some years ago, I was mainly wondering if you would be able to get small letter shapes out without the rest of the stencil falling apart. This because, as I understand it, the knife blade swivels so the plotter has to put it slightly ahead of where the cut needs to start, and moves it to slightly beyond the end of the cut as well, to ensure the whole line is cut. But that, I would think, potentially slices up a small stencil into tiny sections that will be impossible to reassemble?


Except, like I said, affordable laser cutters appear to be incompatible with polystyrene sheet Not many other plastics, but from some reading it seems they can't cut polystyrene smoothly and the plastic will give of dangerous vapours at that.

I asked about laser cutting styrene in this thread ,
works , evidently :
https://www.scalemodeladdict.com/threads/scratch-built-gunboat-philadelphia-1-18.15334/page-3

 

[urumomo]

Oh , starts on page 2 : https://www.scalemodeladdict.com/threads/scratch-built-gunboat-philadelphia-1-18.15334/page-2

 

[airdave]

After having read about these plotters some years ago, I was mainly wondering if you would be able to get small letter shapes out without the rest of the stencil falling apart. This because, as I understand it, the knife blade swivels so the plotter has to put it slightly ahead of where the cut needs to start, and moves it to slightly beyond the end of the cut as well, to ensure the whole line is cut. But that, I would think, potentially slices up a small stencil into tiny sections that will be impossible to reassemble?


Except, like I said, affordable laser cutters appear to be incompatible with polystyrene sheet Not many other plastics, but from some reading it seems they can't cut polystyrene smoothly and the plastic will give of dangerous vapours at that.

The next step in cutting stencils or paint masks (as with any vinyl cutting)
is weeding and premasking.

Weeding is the removal of anything you don't want in the final positive or negative product.
Then pre-mask, or transfer tape/film, is applied over the weeded vinyl to transfer the entire thing to the final surface.
Then the premask is removed leaving only the vinyl stuck to the surface.
The transfer tape also holds all the items in their correct positions.

 

[Edbert]

I can see some need for either lacquer paints or clear coats in-between stuff like Tamiya-XF to avoid peeling/pulling it off.

Applying letters to the side like either of these should be no issue.




In fact I am looking at trying this out on both of those examples. But when it comes to the multi-color or multi-layered insignia, particularly where they overlap existing markings like the Defense of Reich band...I do not trust even light tape to not peel off my acrylic unless I clearcoat it.

 

[Littlemarten]

I do not trust even light tape to not peel off my acrylic unless I clearcoat it.

What brand of acrylics do you use?

 

[Edbert]

Tamiya, mostly XF which I pretty heavily invested in after coming back to the hobby and finding that Model Master iz kaput.

They spray well, support thin coats, clean up well, and dry really fast even if thinned with MLT. Their selection does not match FS#/RLM very well but I am able to mix to the eye well enough for my own taste. But they are FRAGILE, I know it is partly due to my apparent addiction to really thin coats. But even Tamiya branded tape will impact the finish, burnishing is out of the question, so I have been "sealing" things I like with clearcoats. But then there's the issue with buildup, need those lines/holes/rivets/details/etc. open for washing.

But if I were to do the 1939-1944 two-color German crosses or the 3 and 4-color British markings, I feel like a clear after each color is just too much.

Based on what I know now, a year after coming back, I'd choose Mr. Aqueous over Tamiya at this point. But then I'd probably be whining about the cleanup

 

[Littlemarten]

But they are FRAGILE,

What??? That is absolutely NOT my experience! I used Tamiya XF paint to repair the camouflage on my compound hunting bow. It held up almost as well as the original finish, and my hunting was done in dense foliage.

What do you mean by the abbreviation "MLT"?

 

[Edbert]

What do you mean by the abbreviation "MLT"?

Mr. Color Levelling Thinner.

I've used alcohol (90+%) when I do super-light (80-20%) mixes, used X20A (?) until the bottle ran out, but sorta settled on the MLT.

I do think part of my problem is the thin coats, but it lays so nice!

 

[Littlemarten]

Mr. Color Levelling Thinner.

I've used alcohol (90+%) when I do super-light (80-20%) mixes, used X20A (?) until the bottle ran out, but sorta settled on the MLT.

I do think part of my problem is the thin coats, but it lays so nice!

By "80-20%" do you mean 80% thinner to 20% paint? That's really thin, and at least part of the problem. There is so little paint that it cannot cure properly, even with the retarder.

I use 90% isopropyl alcohol with Tamiya Acrylic Retarder. I've heard and read that Mr. Color Leveling Thinner is compatible with Tamiya acrylics, but it is a different brand, so that may be questionable. I do know that 90% isopropyl alcohol is compatible with them.

The dilution I use is 50%—1 part paint to 1 part thinner, and up to 10% retarder. I vary the amount of retarder depending on current temperature and humidity. Higher temperature and/or low humidity means more retarder. Sometimes I do a test spray, and if I think the paint is curing too fast, I'll add more retarder. If it's drying to fast, I'll add a little more alcohol.

There is a difference between "drying" and "curing." True lacquers dry, they don't cure. Polymeric paint dries and cures. Drying begins as soon as the paint comes in contact with air. Curing starts when the amount of solvent in the paint mixture becomes low enough for the polymer (the film-forming part of the paint) to begin to cross link, forming a network.

(side note) Many think, mistakenly, that Tamiya acrylics are lacquers. This is because they use alcohol as their primary solvent, as many lacquers do. Further, Tamiya acrylics, once dried and cured, can be redissolved by application of an alcohol solvent. However, close observation of the resulting liquid reveals that the coating has disintegrated rather than dissolved.

Because their primary solvent is alcohol, Tamiya acrylics dry very rapidly, especially when airbrushed. This means that the paint can start to cure before it reaches the surface being painted. When that happens too much, you get an "orange peal" surface. When it is extreme, you get a dusty surface. To a certain extent, adding more solvent can help this, but a better solution is using a retarder. MLT contains a retarder, but it may not be quite the same as the Tamiya retarder, and may not behave in quite the same way. Retarders tend to be specific to certain kinds of polymers, so there could be a mismatch between Tamiya and Gunze products, even though they are similar.

Tamiya and Gunze acrylics are more tolerant of surface contamination than water solvent acrylics because they use alcohol as a solvent, and alcohols can dissolve skin oil, though not as well as other hydrocarbon solvents. For this reason, I always clean the plastic surface with alcohol before painting.

Hope all this helps

 

[Jakko]

I'd choose Mr. Aqueous over Tamiya at this point. But then I'd probably be whining about the cleanup

Do you mean Mr. Hobby? Because Mr. Aqueous cleans up just the same as Tamiya acrylics. If you get along well with Tamiya acrylics, you almost certainly will with Mr. Aqueous, too. Mr. Hobby, though, requires lacquer thinner and all the rest of it.

That is absolutely NOT my experience!

Agreed, I find most water-based paints to be much more fragile than Tamiya, especially when sprayed. I thin Tamiya roughly 1:1 with isopropanol and spray coats intended to cover in one go, which could well be the reason for the different experience

 

[Edbert]

I thought it was the same thing, just dropping the Hobby part. Mr. Hobby Aqueous is not the same s Mr. Aqueous? I also thought Gunze Aqueous was the same as those two. This stuff is getting out of control!