- Mar 18, 2013
Just to clarify , ohbejuan , were you using a primer ?
A primer will definitely help your color coats adhere, especially the first coats you lay down, and especially if you use acrylics.No I was not. I am pretty casual.
I wil look into this. With the exception of spray sealants, I do everything by brush. but I may try this out. One limitation is no dedicated work space. When I spray the sealant I do it outside. I suppose I could do this outside as well.A primer will definitely help your color coats adhere, especially the first coats you lay down, and especially if you use acrylics.
Enamels and lacquers are hot enough that they can adhere to unprimed surfaces (though perhaps not as well as primed surfaces). Acrylics, generally, and especially water-based acrylics, don't bond to surfaces as well. So it's a good idea to use one, if you use acrylics for your color coats.
I like Tamiya's Fine Surface Primer, but I also use automotive primers and Rustoleum. Tamiya's primer is very finely-grained, while Rustoleum's and the automotive primers I've used are a little more coarsely-grained by comparison. But they all work well.
The only complaint I have with Rustoleum and the other brands is that I have gotten bad cans, whose vents clogged up-the hole in the top where the nozzle inserts. That left me with half a can of paint in the can, that I could not get out. That has never happened to me with Tamiya. And for a small can, it goes a long way.
I'm sure others will have their preferences, too, both regarding priming, and which primer to use. What I have written, is from my own experience. Your mileage may vary.
Yes, same here, specifically regarding the paints-I haven't used any commercially-prepared washes, Tamiya's or anyone else's.my experience says Tamiya paints and washes only work properly with Tamiya thinners...
something in the science....
Tamiya Acrylics are actually a Laquer based Acrylic, which is why many of use use Mr Color self leveling thinner.Yes, same here, specifically regarding the paints-I haven't used any commercially-prepared washes, Tamiya's or anyone else's.
I undertook a hero's journey with Tamiya paints, to get where I am today with them. When I started casting and painting toy soldiers back in the 90s, I bought paints as they were available, and for specific colors. I didn't mix any. So I wound up with a good collection of Tamiya acrylics in my Farbkastl. And I applied them by hand, albeit over a primer. I had the problems many report, especially that applying a second coat would lift off the first coat.
Then I got back into scale modeling, too. I used rattlecans for applying main color coats, but still used Tamiya's acrylics, applied by hand. I got myself an airbrush and started teaching myself to use it. And I read on some forum, that Tamiya's paints are formulated for airbrushing and so, are intended to be thinned for use. I don't know if that's the company's official position, but it made sense to me, given my experience with the paints.
So then I experimented with different thinners, more because Tamiya's thinner struck me as expensive for the small volume, and my Dutchy senses wouldn't let me spend so much, if there were cheaper alternatives. I tried water, because hey, "Acrylic means water-based!", right? (I learned that no, it doesn't). Still got the clumping, the paint lifting off. Then I tried isopropyl, because hey, Tamiya's acrylics are alcohol-based, right? Well, alcohols comprise a range of organic compounds, and I think Tamiya's acrylics use some other alcohol as a base. Isopropyl didn't work for me as a thinner for Tamiya acrylics. I still got clumping, and paint lifting. Though, it works very well to clean the brushes.
So I broke down, bought a bottle of Tamiya's proprietary thinner, and tried it. Immediately, the problems with hand-brushing went away. Airbrushing it became simple and consistent, too. I've gotten to the point where, with the paint properly thinned, I can lay down a coat on a piece, as thin as if I had airbrushed it.
The only drawback for me, is that I like to use a wet palette for my acrylics, and I can't do this with Tamiya's acrylics. So for hand-brushing, I use a small jar of the thinner. I'll either dip the brush in the jar, then touch it to the inside of the jar lid to pick up the paint, swirl it gently, then apply it to the piece. Or I pick up the color, then dip the brush in the thinner. Either way has worked well for me.
I don't use Tamiya's paints exclusively; I have other acrylics, such as water-based Andrea, Vallejo, Lifecolor, and craft-store brands. And I've got enamels, lacquers, and oils. But having solved the Riddle of Tamiya, I didn't have to struggle on with them or discard them.
And when someone posts, "You can't paint Tamiya acrylics by hand", I can offer my own experience to explain how it can work.
ANYONE please correct me if I'm wrong. But the characteristic shared by all acrylics is that they cure as a film, and water based ones like Vallejo don't adhere to plastic as well as a solvent based paint will. This does make masking Vallejo tricky, and makes things like masking fluid work not well, as it will continue to peel up past where you've masked. Where as a chipping fluid from Mig or Vallejo requires saturating the acrylic top layer with water to cause a reaction to the fluid underneath and makes a controlled peel lol.I missed this discussion last year until it was just bumped. I can concur about the lacquer-based acrylic. I have no idea the chemistry to this, but I know that both Tamiya and Mr. Hobby acrylics are compatible with each other, and can be thinned with either acrylic thinner or lacquer thinner for airbrushing. These are incompatible with Testors Model Master Acryls and cannot be mixed. However, Tamiya's acrylic thinner works fine for these Model Master paints. Just not lacquer thinner.
I saw a YT video by Mig in which he said that Mig and Vallejo acrylics are different than Tamiya, and must be airbrushed differently. I've never really used Vallejo paints before, but it seems that they are rather finicky. I've heard of it lifting up when masking is removed.
I have solved the problem I discussed in the original post as follows. Originally, I was having trouble with the combo of Vallejo acrylic paint, Tamiya spray gloss coat, then Tamiya panel liner, cleaned up with testors enamel thinner. I solved this in a bunch of ways. 1) I started using primer more religiously 2) I stopped using Tamiya has my first/decal gloss coat and switched to pledge/future. 3) I use Mona Lisa odorless enamel thinner. I still use the panel liner and it works pretty well now.ANYONE please correct me if I'm wrong. But the characteristic shared by all acrylics is that they cure as a film, and water based ones like Vallejo don't adhere to plastic as well as a solvent based paint will. This does make masking Vallejo tricky, and makes things like masking fluid work not well, as it will continue to peel up past where you've masked. Where as a chipping fluid from Mig or Vallejo requires saturating the acrylic top layer with water to cause a reaction to the fluid underneath and makes a controlled peel lol.
That being said, to my knowledge, the only lacquer thinner that should be used with Tamiya Acrylics is Tamiya Lacquer Thinner (Pale yellow cap) as that causes a specific reaction with the Tamiya acrylics solvent, and actually turns the paint into a lacquer. I've been told by my LHS owner that using Tamiya Lacquer Thinner with Mr. Color lacquers works fine, but the paint may not be shelf stable.
I have thinned Tamiya acrylics with distilled water and 91% rubbing alcohol with good success as an FYI as well.