Ghost Grey and Italeri decals for the 1/72 A-6E TRAM Intruder

[blakeh1]

This is the Italeri kit representing the gulf war

Unless I am mistaken, the color scheme for the low vis of these jets is Dark Ghost Grey and Light Ghost Grey

I used Vallejo Model Air 711120/FS36320 Dark Ghost grey

However, the decals in the Italeri kit are a near perfect color match and disappear on the Ghost Grey??

I would think they should be a bit darker at the very least

Is it possible that the colors on the decals are off due to a printing problem, or should I be using a different color?

In my experience, Italeri decals are good quality, and from what I can tell the high vis decals on the sheet look perfect color wise so it does not seem like a mistake

NOTE - the color in this pic is muck darker than it appears in person


This is not my image, but it shows the Vallejo Ghost Grey next to a FS36320 sample and the colors are close, and in fact, the Vallejo Ghost grey a bit lighter even



This is not my build or pic, but it is the same kit, and looks like they used the kit decals. You can barely see them and they are actually lighter than the paint



this is how it appears in the kit instructions



I used the same paint colors on my 1/72 F-18C from Hasegawa and the low vis decals contrast/darkness seems ok

color is identical to the one used on the A-6







Although I do notice in the instructions, it says FS35237 as to what they call "Dark Ghost Grey" which is a similar darkness/shade, but slightly more blue according to the Vallejo Model air paints. I have. IN fact, I painted a bit of that color onto the top of the engine exhaust and it is hard to see much of a color difference so even if I used that color it would be the same issue





So do I lighten the color with some white, or are the marking really supposed to be as light or lighter than the body color
Or look for aftermarket decals?


I also noticed when building a High Vis scheme, they did not call for Light Gull Grey (16440/36440) which I thought was typical of high vis, but instead listed Flat Gull Grey (36622)

How accurate is Italeri with color suggestions?

 

[urumomo]

 

[urumomo]

Flicker photostream :

 

[blakeh1]

Here is what it is based on, (maybe not the exact plane but same squad)

markings are definitely darker, so I guess that mean I have to significantly lighten up the Dark Ghost Grey assuming that is Dark Ghost grey in the pic

or find different decals

 

[urumomo]

Why are you not posting a pic of the actual Italeri decals ?

 

[blakeh1]

Why are you not posting a pic of the actual Italeri decals ?

Sorry,

Here is the decal sheet



The color looks dark in the above pics as I cannot get a good light source and it is overcast outside, but the pic below is a better representation of how the color looks in person

I do notice despite using the same paint the F-18 does look slighlty bluer/lighter. Maybe that has to do with the primer color as I used a dark grey on the A-6, but white on the F-18, or I might have mixed in a bit of white to add some panel highlights

Maybe Dark Ghost Grey (at least the Vallejo) is not good to use without lightening.

 

[urumomo]

" Maybe that has to do with the primer color as I used a dark grey on the A-6, but white on the F-18, .. "
Absolutely .
Big time .

 

[blakeh1]

" Maybe that has to do with the primer color as I used a dark grey on the A-6, but white on the F-18, .. "
Absolutely .
Big time .

Still, the decals would disappear on the F-18 there as well. Will have to go even lighter I think with the paint

 

[blakeh1]

Mixed a near 50/50 mix of Dark Ghost Grey and Light Ghost Grey

Noticeably lighter now and at least the decals show up better, even if not as dark as I think they should be

While it may be much lighter than the actual FS color sample, I think it better matches most pics have seen

I guess is it that scale factor of having to go lighter on something that small rather than getting an exact match to the full 1:1 size object

 

[blakeh1]

Well despite going nearly the shade of Light Ghost Grey the decals are still barely visible contrast wise

This demonstrates how much lighter I went from the original base coat (the piece was a bit darker since I added an oil wash)


The F-18 shade is what I am expecting (Hassegawa decals with Vallejo Dark Ghost Grey).

Maybe my expectations are wrong, or maybe Darlk Ghost Grey is not the correct color, or maybe the Vallejo paint is just wildly off, or the Italeri decals are wildly off?

Not sure which







Actual aircraft (pic is a bit blue shifted seemingly, but shows the difference in shade contrast for the markings)

And the exact plane


But then again, apart from the number below the cockpit, the other markings like the danger warnings and marines logo doe seem to match the contrast here in the pic posted by urumomo more than the above pic

 

[blakeh1]

For posterity sake in case anyone finds this thread and is building one of the Italeri A-6 kits..

I got some feedback from some others elsewhere it seems the Italeri decals are indeed the problem here. They are too light.

There is an after market set with the correct shading available for the same registration numbers/markings here

http://www.aoadecals.com/72002/home.htm

If you happen to use this Italeri A-6-E TRAM or their KA-6D kit decals and paint suggestions as the VMA-176 Thunderbolts there are other discrepancy/accuracy issues with the instruction sheet and decals

The A-6e TRAM shows this listing USS America in the heading, but the decals sheet and picture below of the placement illustration clearly has USS Forrestal above the NAVY part?

Now both ship assignments are technically correct since according to Wikipedia - "The next three years were spent aboard the USS America. In 1979 the wing moved to the USS Independence, followed by the USS Forrestal from 1986 to 1991"

Just not correct as this heading suggest it is supposed to represent. If 1978, then the decals should say USS America






On the other hand, in the KA-6D sheet the heading says this. Correct ship and year for the heading and decal sheet, but the heading says USMC while the decal sheet has NAVY not MARINES

As far as I could tell, this is a navy bird anyway?
If USMC is correct, maybe it is still listed as NAVY despite that?





In addition, the colors suggest for the High VIs paint scheme show this



Unless I am mistaken, the normal High VIs color is Light Gull Grey FS 36440?

All in all, Italeri instructions and details seem to be rife with mistakes, or at the very least, confusing on these kits

 

[golgotha]

For posterity sake in case anyone finds this thread and is building one of the Italeri A-6 kits..

I got some feedback from some others elsewhere it seems the Italeri decals are indeed the problem here. They are too light.

There is an after market set with the correct shading available for the same registration numbers/markings here

http://www.aoadecals.com/72002/home.htm

If you happen to use this Italeri A-6-E TRAM or their KA-6D kit decals and paint suggestions as the VMA-176 Thunderbolts there are other discrepancy/accuracy issues with the instruction sheet and decals

The A-6e TRAM shows this listing USS America in the heading, but the decals sheet and picture below of the placement illustration clearly has USS Forrestal above the NAVY part?

Now both ship assignments are technically correct since according to Wikipedia - "The next three years were spent aboard the USS America. In 1979 the wing moved to the USS Independence, followed by the USS Forrestal from 1986 to 1991"

Just not correct as this heading suggest it is supposed to represent. If 1978, then the decals should say USS America
View attachment 96529

View attachment 96530



On the other hand, in the KA-6D sheet the heading says this. Correct ship and year for the heading and decal sheet, but the heading says USMC while the decal sheet has NAVY not MARINES

As far as I could tell, this is a navy bird anyway?
If USMC is correct, maybe it is still listed as NAVY despite that?

View attachment 96531

View attachment 96532

In addition, the colors suggest for the High VIs paint scheme show this

View attachment 96533

Unless I am mistaken, the normal High VIs color is Light Gull Grey FS 36440?

All in all, Italeri instructions and details seem to be rife with mistakes, or at the very least, confusing on these kits

Many companies just choose to produce a bog standard single tone and that is what they suggest on their instructions.

Too many choices might confuse customers and saves the company another investment.

The last time I built any US Navy Jets I used Xtracolour Enamel, which offered many colour choices.

Humbrol used to offer a great selection of modern greys, but they also dropped many after they reorganised and started to manufacture overseas. Then I found the same colour in different boxes, was a different shade completely.

John

 

[smokeriderdon]

I was gonna say its the decals, but you already figured that out. LOL

As for the colors. Light Gull and Flat gull are really close to the same. When you do a dark/light gull gray scheme, the division between top and bottom should be somewhat hard to tell.

Yes, some Marine planes have Navy on them. The crayon eaters wont like this, but they ARE a branch of the Navy. (Dives behind couch) That squadron seems to be one that had that. I found a pic of one. Interestingly, it has near invisible markings. So perhaps Italeri was looking at one like this.

 

[blakeh1]

Thanks for the clarification of Navy/Marines

As you mentioned, the markings do seem to vary in contrast and some are nearly invisible like the one you posted

as a result, the kit decals may be indeed appropriate for at least some of the schemes ( however the 501 number the front though is much darker than the Navy designation in that pic for example

in this case thought, the exact markings represented in the Italieri kit is this and I guess they are just too light, or maybe not opaque enough to provide good contrast. The decals are Catograf and from my experience, they have excellent quality so most likely not a printing issue over a deliberate color choice

Either way I will give the AOA decals a try when they get here and post back

 

[blakeh1]

Success!

The AOA decals arrived today and are the perfect color/lightness/darkness for what I was expecting based on the picture from the previous post

I replaced the nose markings, and you can see their color compared to the barely visible Italeri intake warning color which was the same as what the previous markings were

On a side note, the decals also perform as good as the cartograf ones in the Italeri kit if there are any worries about application

Very satisfied

forgive the dark non-white balanced pics as I did not bother trying to get beauty shots, just for demo purposes



And in contrast, original kit Marines marking




vs new AOA marking