Decal help

[carthorse11]

I have put the decals on my Lancaster using white vinegar mixed 50/50 with water and th wind line decals have gone all funny i will attach photos, is there anything I can do before I varnish

 

[karcio]

Hi @carthorse11 - is this

vinegar mixed 50/50 with water

good? Could you please tell me more how do you use it? Sorry I am new here

 

[urumomo]

I have put the decals on my Lancaster using white vinegar mixed 50/50 with water and th wind line decals have gone all funny i will attach photos, is there anything I can do before I varnish

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You soaked them in vinegar ?
5% diluted to 2.5% acetic acid ?
You probably removed the adhesive so it's not bonding .
Why did you soak them in that solution ?

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

You soaked them in vinegar ?
5% diluted to 2.5% acetic acid ?
You probably removed the adhesive so it's not bonding .
Why did you soak them in that solution ?

My thoughts exactly. All decals are usually soaked in water - not some crazy concoction of vinegar and acid.

I use Micro Set and Micro Sol during my decaling sessions. Micro Set on the area the decal to be placed; brush Micro Sol on top of the decal (helps smooth out any wrinkles and eliminate silvering; then spray a coat of flat clear to seal in the decals.

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

Hi @carthorse11 - is this

good? Could you please tell me more how do you use it? Sorry I am new here

Dont waste your time on that method. Hot or warm water is best and is readily available in your home.

 

[carthorse11]

You soaked them in vinegar ?
5% diluted to 2.5% acetic acid ?
You probably removed the adhesive so it's not bonding .
Why did you soak them in that solution ?

I just read somewhere that a lot of people use it ......obviousley not right

 

[carthorse11]

Hi @carthorse11 - is this

good? Could you please tell me more how do you use it? Sorry I am new here

Im new here to and for godsake do not use it as it was a big mistake

 

[urumomo]

I've read of people using vinegar to soften decals after they are bonded in place , as a substitute for decal setting solutions like Micro Sol and Mark Fit .
I don't know how well that works . If at all .

The decal film is bonded to the backing paper with dextrose , and on very basic decals that is what bonds the film to the substrate , but , the majority of decals have an additional water based adhesive ( acrylic ) layer .
That acrylic film is very thin and acetic acid ( vinegar ) will dissolve acrylic .
It will depend on the decal too .
Some are more robust than others ., a 2 -5 % acid concentration is low , but enough if the adhesive film is exceptionally thin .
It also depends on the acrylic resin used .

But - there is no advantage using anything other than water to place the decal initially .

Could just be bad decals too . It happens .
Of course , adding vinegar definitely didn't help if the decal's adhesive film was already weak .

 

[carthorse11]

Thank you - another lesson learned the hard way into my journey in model making the key is never make the same mistake twice

 

[the Baron]

Yeah, using white vinegar as a setting solution is an old-school technique that goes back to the days before things like Solvaset or MicroSol and other products were generally available. I'm old-school, but even I've never tried using vinegar as a setting solution.

 

[carthorse11]

It’s all a learning curb, so far I’ve snapped the canopy ( I hate painting canopies they are a nightmare) then the vinegar episode. I am not 100% happy with it but as it is my first larger aircraft I’m not 100% disappointed either, as long as I learn along the way, going to try my panther tank as my next project as never done a tank before

 

[Pantherman]

I have put the decals on my Lancaster using white vinegar mixed 50/50 with water and th wind line decals have gone all funny i will attach photos, is there anything I can do before I varnish

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Never heard of that for fixing decals, definitely heading for trouble I think. I have always used micro sol and set after being advised to do so and in 2 year's I've never had an issue. Pantherman

 

[the Baron]

Care and patience, care and patience. And not being afraid to make mistakes. We all do. I like to look at my old builds-and I have builds from when I was in my teens-and see if I've learned anything.

 

[the Baron]

As far as vinegar and decal setting go, I think that some commercial solutions have acetic acid as an active ingredient. But I need to go back and look at the products I have to be sure.

 

[urumomo]

Please share that info IF you can find it .
I put Micro Sol and Mark Fit on baking soda and there was zero reaction . None .
I was never able to find any SDS or other info .
I have a couple of digital pH meters so I need do some more testing --- adding that to my list of things to do .

 

[BlackSheepTwoOneFour]

It’s all a learning curb, so far I’ve snapped the canopy ( I hate painting canopies they are a nightmare) then the vinegar episode.

You’re not alone when it comes to painting canopies. Time consuming and tiring. I’ve some my own masking using Frog Yellow Painter Tape.You do have two options….

Option one…

Order masks specifically for the particular aircraft you’re working on. The big upside to masks, is the ease of using them.

Option two…

Use Liquid Mask. After painting, they can be rubbed off. I bought Vallejo Liquid Mask over the weekend and haven’t tried it yet on my Lancaster kit. (Those greenhouse canopies are a nightmare to do when making your own masks)

You’re certainly not alone with other mishaps. We all have. Been there, done that. I’ve lost a many tiny parts from tweezers and they’ve disappeared to the vast unknown only to find them days or weeks later. Especially in places you’d never thought to find it. Ain’t this hobby great!?

 

[carthorse11]

Ive just bought this for me next one, hope it works

 

[the Baron]

Please share that info IF you can find it .
I put Micro Sol and Mark Fit on baking soda and there was zero reaction . None .
I was never able to find any SDS or other info .
I have a couple of digital pH meters so I need do some more testing --- adding that to my list of things to do .

Hi, Momo, I hadn't forgotten this post.
I checked the products I have right now, which are just Solvaset and Micro Sol, and neither have acetic acid listed. I can't remember where I saw that, but since I can't confirm it, I withdraw the statement.
Memory isn't reliable for testimony....