Author Topic: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P  (Read 426 times)

Offline hagakure.s81

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Hi all, hoping somebody can help me out here. I'm about to put in an order for some new paints and I want to get the Vallejo range of paints, + some extra supplies. I'm going to build an Eduard F6F-3 Hellcat, and need the full range of paints (listed below). The only paint references in the instruction book are in Gunze numbers. After much researching and comparing from multiple sites I think I've come up with the list of equivalents in Vallejo's range. But I would really really appreciate it if somebody could check a few items and give their advice.
Lines in green i'm pretty much sure about.
Lines in yellow come in a US Navy paints pack from Vallejo i'm going to get for future use.
Lines in orange I'm fairly sure about, but any advice is welcome.
Lines in red i'm really unsure!.

GSI/Gunze Paint Acc. to Instruction SheetVallejo Equivalent Picked
Mr. Color C-11 H-51 Light Grey71.121
Mr. Color C-14 H-54 Navy Blue71.295 or 71.300Comes in pack 71.157
Mr. Color C-27 H-58 Inter. Green71.010This one I'm only going by the name - couldn't find any conversion
Mr. Color C-33 H-12 Flat Black71.057
Mr. Color C-47 Clear Red70.934Note .1
Mr. Color C-48 Clear Yellow70.937Note .1
Mr. Color C-72 H-56 Inter. Blue71.299Comes in pack 71.157
Mr. Color C-137 H-77 Tire Black71.315
Mr. Color C-138 H-94 Clear Green70.936Note .1
Mr. Color C-306 Grey71.275
Mr. Color C-316 H-316 White71.279Comes in pack 71.157
Mr. Color C-319 H-319 Light GreenNoneNote .2
Hobby Color H-344 Rust76.506 or 71.069Note .3
Mr. Metal Color MC-214 Dark Iron77.721Also considered 77.720 but .721 is probably closer?
Mr. Metal Color MC-218 Aluminium77.701Note .4

Notes:
  • Looking at the location the Mr. Model "Clear" paints are used, its for tinting transparent plastic for lights etc, so I think the Vallejo "Transparent" colours are the same thing right?
  • I'm going to skip this colour as I can only see it used on a tiny part, the cap in front of the propeller.
     Since there is not a clear conversion that I can find to Vallejo, I'm going to use the Aluminium metal acrylic here instead, which i've seen on other versions of this aircraft anyway
  • This is one I am most struggling with. Looks like H-344 is out of production, so hard to see exactly what it is. Is it like a wash? Or a straight up paint for airbrushing? There is a Mr. Weathering Color WC08, is this the replacement?
     I've found Vallejo Model Wash 76.506, or Vallejo Model Air 71.069 - but since i'm not sure what type of product H-344 actually is, i'm not sure what to replace it with. Please help!
  • For the Vallejo Metal Acrylics in the list above, do I really need the seperate 77.660 (Gloss Black) Surface Primer? Its specifically for the metals range. Or can I just use the basic 74.601 (Grey) Surface Primer I will be getting? Does the gloss primer bring out the metals better?
    -- Follow up: There is also a special Gloss Varnish 26.657 specifically for these metals. Should I get this or just use the Future I hope will arrive soon (really hard - maybe impossible to get here in NZ btw)

Please note - I am a noob at this :), it will be my first time airbrushing (yes I will practice).
So sorry for the long post, hopefully not TL for most.





Offline urumomo

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 11:08:AM »
Why are you going with Vallejo ?
I'd personally like to get away from Vallejo    ;)

Can you get Mission Models paints in NZ ?

Offline unttld

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 02:29:PM »
The rust colour from Mr. Hobby is a flat deep rust colour. Similar to hull red. It's not a metallic, or a wash. You can probably find another light olive green from somewhere. You really only need a gloss black base coat if you want your metallics to be ultra glossy. Like if you want a crazy chrome mirror finish you would polish a mirror black gloss base, and then put down the metallic and buff that up to a mirror finish.

@urumomo same, I've switched my acrylic to Mission Models. I still prefer lacquer and enamel though. But, all my water-based and alcohol-based acrylics have been binned and replaced with MMP.
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Offline hagakure.s81

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 08:46:PM »
Why are you going with Vallejo ?
I'd personally like to get away from Vallejo    ;)

Can you get Mission Models paints in NZ ?

I've heard of a lot of different brands of paints - Mission Models is not one of them.
Looking at their website, it does let me list the price in NZD, however I have no idea of the viability or cost of shipping paints internationally. It does not look like there are any suppliers available in New Zealand.
Why do you recommend them?
**edit** i've sent them a message enquiring about shipping etc. lets see.
**edit-2** got a reply back straight away from Mission Models that they can easily ship to NZ, even the thinners/poly-mix etc. Going to give this some serious consideration - but i'd still like to know your reasoning for discarding Vallejo and picking Mission Models


As to (why) Vallejo:
  • Big range of colours readily available here
  • I hear they are pretty fool-proof for airbrushing and also decent for hand painting
  • I want to use acrylics, at least at this stage (noob remember!), not something that calls itself an acrylic but has a secret 2nd life as an enamel or something

Other options over here would be Tamiya, Humbrol, Testors, Citadel, Ammo, AK Interactive + maybe a few other brands. Not all have a full range of colours however. Perhaps international orders may be an option from somewhere like BNA? But again, not sure on the shipping options esp. if not a water based paint.

Whats wrong with Vallejo if I may ask?
« Last Edit: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 11:02:PM by hagakure.s81 »

Offline hagakure.s81

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 08:51:PM »
The rust colour from Mr. Hobby is a flat deep rust colour. Similar to hull red. It's not a metallic, or a wash. You can probably find another light olive green from somewhere. You really only need a gloss black base coat if you want your metallics to be ultra glossy. Like if you want a crazy chrome mirror finish you would polish a mirror black gloss base, and then put down the metallic and buff that up to a mirror finish.

@urumomo same, I've switched my acrylic to Mission Models. I still prefer lacquer and enamel though. But, all my water-based and alcohol-based acrylics have been binned and replaced with MMP.

Thank you for the advice.
So the replacement I should get for the rust colour from Mr. Hobby should just be a plain old rust coloured acrylic paint.
For the aluminium and dark iron metal paints on this model, the areas are quite small, not like a P51D or something where the whole fuselage is metallic, so I think I can get away without the base coat then, based on your advice.

There's another mention of mission models... I guess I should do some more research on them :D

« Last Edit: Mon Jul, 10, 2017, 11:04:PM by hagakure.s81 »

Offline urumomo

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jul, 11, 2017, 11:22:AM »




Whats wrong with Vallejo if I may ask?


  Meh   --  I don't think you can come close to matching their color range and overall they're great  ,
                just a little tired of the inconsistencies between colors as far as mechanical properties go.
                 
                plus they taste horrible . 

Offline Elm City Hobbies

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jul, 11, 2017, 03:31:PM »
Absolutely nothing wrong with Vallejo paints, some of the best out there.

Something that might help, there are a couple of online paint conversion references, probably the best is:

The Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart

http://www.paint4models.com/paintchart/paintconversionchart20100101h.html

Also, if you have an Android smart phone, there is a free app you can download called Hobby Color Converter,  you can bring up a particular color in the data base, and it will give you the matches it has in its data base. Gets updated on a semi regular basis. Can also use it as a shopping list, as well as a paint inventory feature.

If you have an Apple product, there is a similar one, but not 100% sure what it is called

For H54, depends on the scheme you are going to be using. If the overall blue, then 71300, but if it is the 3 tone, then 71295. Here is the back of the box for the 71157 set



As for the 71157 set, you don't have to buy the whole set if there are only 2-3 colors you want out of it, as they are all available separately.

For H58, 71010 would be the match, if you want the interior yellow it would be 71107

For the transparent colors, Vallejo has 8 transparent colors in the Model Color line, they work the same as any of the other transparent colors.

71279, and 71299 would be the other 2 colors that go with 71295 for the 3 tone blue camo

As far as H344, it is a solid color, the Vallejo match would be 71080. The 71069 is a metallic rust, likely don't want that, and 73506 is a rust wash.

For MC214, I think 77721 would be a closer match, 77720 is a Gunmetal Grey.

As far as the Metal Colors go, you don't "need" the gloss black primer, but it does tend to pop the colors a bit more. That being said, if I am hand brushing the paint onto small parts, I don't bother with the primer. If I was going to do a NMF finish on an aircraft, I definitely would.

Likely most of the metal you would use the paint on won't be readily seen, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, if you have the parts primed grey already, just go with it.

The gloss varnish in the line, is just gloss varnish, nothing special about it where it is in the Metal Color line, just there as something you can put over the paint to protect it. Can just use whatever you now use as a varnish if you want.

Offline hagakure.s81

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jul, 11, 2017, 10:53:PM »
Quote
plus they taste horrible.

Do you have a favourite by taste then?? :D
Thanks for putting me onto Mission Models though - after emailing the owner, I think i'm definitely going to give them a go. Since you have experience with them, can I just ask you: how are their metallic paints (aluminium & burnt iron) compared to other companies products? Does the aluminium come up with a very nice finish?

Absolutely nothing wrong with Vallejo paints, some of the best out there.

Something that might help, there are a couple of online paint conversion references, probably the best is:
The Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart

Also, if you have an Android smart phone, there is a free app you can download called Hobby Color Converter,  you can bring up a particular color in the data base, and it will give you the matches it has in its data base. Gets updated on a semi regular basis. Can also use it as a shopping list, as well as a paint inventory feature.

If you have an Apple product, there is a similar one, but not 100% sure what it is called

For H54, depends on the scheme you are going to be using. If the overall blue, then 71300, but if it is the 3 tone, then 71295. Here is the back of the box for the 71157 set

As for the 71157 set, you don't have to buy the whole set if there are only 2-3 colors you want out of it, as they are all available separately.

For H58, 71010 would be the match, if you want the interior yellow it would be 71107

For the transparent colors, Vallejo has 8 transparent colors in the Model Color line, they work the same as any of the other transparent colors.

71279, and 71299 would be the other 2 colors that go with 71295 for the 3 tone blue camo

As far as H344, it is a solid color, the Vallejo match would be 71080. The 71069 is a metallic rust, likely don't want that, and 73506 is a rust wash.

For MC214, I think 77721 would be a closer match, 77720 is a Gunmetal Grey.

As far as the Metal Colors go, you don't "need" the gloss black primer, but it does tend to pop the colors a bit more. That being said, if I am hand brushing the paint onto small parts, I don't bother with the primer. If I was going to do a NMF finish on an aircraft, I definitely would.

Likely most of the metal you would use the paint on won't be readily seen, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, if you have the parts primed grey already, just go with it.

The gloss varnish in the line, is just gloss varnish, nothing special about it where it is in the Metal Color line, just there as something you can put over the paint to protect it. Can just use whatever you now use as a varnish if you want.

Perfect. Thanks for all the tips on the paint conversions.
I had found the ultimate paint conversion list and used that to convert many of the colours, as well as cross-referencing with some other sites including one that listed the actual paints used by US Navy aircraft by era, which was quite handy! I had downloaded the android app already but I guess I didn't use it right!! Had another look and now I see where I went wrong. nm.

On the metallic paints - ok understood, for small parts don't worry about the gloss primer, and for the varnish any varnish is ok.

On the paint set - I had thought to get this as I will probably end up doing more US Navy aircraft in the future, but now I think I will just get those I require, thanks for all the assistance!

« Last Edit: Tue Jul, 11, 2017, 11:12:PM by hagakure.s81 »

Offline Go Flight

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jul, 21, 2017, 10:40:AM »
A little late the the thread, but I'm another that's firmly in Vallejo's camp.

For the tire color, if you have trouble with the chosen color, MC German Gray or MC Black Gray is a good alternatives.

Also as I found out the hard way while trying to look for V. paints in a retail rack - it's MUCH easier if you switch to using the Position (pos) Number rather than the serial number (or whatever that number is). The serial number when lining paints up according to color doesn't work but the position number will.
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Offline Elm City Hobbies

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Re: Paints order for a Noob - please help! -esp Vallejo experts :P
« Reply #9 on: Fri Jul, 21, 2017, 02:43:PM »
A little late the the thread, but I'm another that's firmly in Vallejo's camp.

For the tire color, if you have trouble with the chosen color, MC German Gray or MC Black Gray is a good alternatives.

Also as I found out the hard way while trying to look for V. paints in a retail rack - it's MUCH easier if you switch to using the Position (pos) Number rather than the serial number (or whatever that number is). The serial number when lining paints up according to color doesn't work but the position number will.

I hate the position number. Wish they would do away with it. Model Color is the only line that uses it, and other than keeping similar colors together, serves no other purpose.

My racks in the shop are lined up by the 5 digit model number on the bottle. All the other Vallejo lines are lined up that way, and makes it easy to find the color.