Author Topic: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.  (Read 2800 times)

Offline stevethefish

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #15 on: Wed Apr, 05, 2017, 11:24:PM »
Turpenoid is a safer alternative to turpentine. I just bought a bottle recently to use instead of turpentine.


Offline unttld

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #16 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 08:40:AM »
I use turpentine and lacquer thinner as a cleaner. Turpenoid and white/mineral spirits are my thinner of choice. But, that might have something to do with my model building supplies overlapping with a wood shop and an electrical engineering lab. :/


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Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #17 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 11:34:AM »
   So are any of you using actual  " turpentine "  ?    --  the one from real-life trees ?

   Because all these distillates are chemically different .
   I'd really like to know what is happening  .     Why would mineral spirits attack the plastic and not lacquer thinner , which is the true solvent  ?

   The failures are happening where the material is stressed  ? 


                 Whaaaa    ??

             

Offline unttld

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #18 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 11:52:AM »
The failure happens when the solvents hit parts that aren't polystyrene. Bandai regularly includes ABS and polyvinyl parts in their kits.

Also, if you don't do a good job gluing two parts together before priming (the inside of the part is unprimed polystyrene) solvents can leak into these voids and damage the unprimed polystyrene.

Lacquer primer etches the plastic and cures off generally quicker then the thinner can melt the plastic. I put sprue parts in a small jar of lacquer thinner and use it as a liquid polystyrene seam filler. Works quite nicely. Is toxic as all hell.

But yes, I use legit real turpentine, as well as the alternatives and other types of solvents.


   So are any of you using actual  " turpentine "  ?    --  the one from real-life trees ?

   Because all these distillates are chemically different .
   I'd really like to know what is happening  .     Why would mineral spirits attack the plastic and not lacquer thinner , which is the true solvent  ?

   The failures are happening where the material is stressed  ? 


                 Whaaaa    ??

             



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Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #19 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 11:54:AM »
   So ABS and poly-vinyls will dissolve in mineral spirits  ?

                What  ?

Offline unttld

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #20 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 12:02:PM »
Not dissolve. But they are easily damaged by them. I think the problem exists more with the articulated kits (figures, Gundam) as the joints will all have the soft caps that I think are a vinyl rubber mix. But that material is not a fan of spirits or stronger.


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Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #21 on: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 12:09:PM »
   ABS definitely will have no issue with mineral spirits .

   So  , both turpenoids and white spirits  ,, and of course lacquer thinner ( acetone , toluene , MEK ) will attack the  vinyl-whatever-mix  in the what ? poly-caps  ?

    -- - I'm soaking some poly-caps in mineral spirits  ,,  not Bandai  , Fujimi    ,,  we'll see what happens
   I don't like surprises
   

  EDIT   -
                 zero effect  ,   as anticipated .      ,,  on Fujimi and Tamiya poly caps   .
                Maybe Bandai uses earwax for their joints   ---     white spirits will dissolve wax

             
           
« Last Edit: Thu Apr, 06, 2017, 12:17:PM by urumomo »

Offline blakeh1

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #22 on: Fri Apr, 07, 2017, 08:09:PM »
Turpenoid is a safer alternative to turpentine. I just bought a bottle recently to use instead of turpentine.

Yes and no. Safer I think to use on Bandai plastic the Turpentine, but it is still toxic.

In a way, toxicity wise it is worse than Turpentine since it doesn't really stink, so it is kind of misleading since you do not even notice you are breathing the toxic fumes

I think I am going to try water mixable oils

Looking into them, they are real deal oil paints, you just sub water wherever you normally would use Turpentine/Turpenoid.
They also have the benefit of not yellowing like some oils can do
They are also less "glossy"

I also use oils for traditional canvas paintings as well as models, so these really sound promising

Water soluble oil paints facts tips why I use them
http://www.finearttips.com/2009/10/water-soluble-oil-paints-facts-tips-why-i-use-them/

Offline stevethefish

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #23 on: Sat Apr, 08, 2017, 04:59:AM »
   ABS definitely will have no issue with mineral spirits .

   So  , both turpenoids and white spirits  ,, and of course lacquer thinner ( acetone , toluene , MEK ) will attack the  vinyl-whatever-mix  in the what ? poly-caps  ?

    -- - I'm soaking some poly-caps in mineral spirits  ,,  not Bandai  , Fujimi    ,,  we'll see what happens
   I don't like surprises
   

  EDIT   -
                 zero effect  ,   as anticipated .      ,,  on Fujimi and Tamiya poly caps   .
                Maybe Bandai uses earwax for their joints   ---     white spirits will dissolve wax
Let's think about why these various solvents are used. As unttld was talking about, lacquer thinner is used to thin paint. It dries quickly and is gone. We don't soak parts in lacquer thinner, lest they melt. Turpentine is rather slow to dry, and is sticky. It gets onto plastic and clings to it. During this time, it can weaken the plastic to the point that the plastic can crack, crumble, and fall off in chunks. Enamel thinner used for weathering effects is also brushed on copiously and it takes a long time to dry.

Bandai has an exclusive agreement with GSI Creos, so all of their paint call-outs are the names of Mr. Color or Hobby Aqueous paints. Official Bandai weathering guides are always given with Mr. Weathering items. So if GSI Creos paints were particularly hazardous for Bandai plastics, that would be a big problem. Actually, I recently have accumulated several Mr. Weathering Color washes to use instead of Tamiya Panel Line Accent Color assuming that it is kinder to Bandai plastics. That may not be true, though. In the end, not all polystyrene is the same, and there's something about Bandai's formula that makes it weaker to stronger solvents. Perhaps the safest way to go is using acrylic washes and pastel chalks.

In somewhat related info, in regards to Bandai paint callouts, they don't even mention the higher number lacquer Mr. Color paints that aren't available as the acrylic Aqueous paints, so they always suggest paint mixtures while there may be a closely matching Mr. Color paint in the 300 range that would be easier to use.


Yes and no. Safer I think to use on Bandai plastic the Turpentine, but it is still toxic.
Would you recommend linseed oil over turpenoid then? All I know is that others have recommended turpenoid over turpentine for Bandai plastics on the Starship Modeler forum.

Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #24 on: Sat Apr, 08, 2017, 09:37:AM »

  I'm trying to find out what material in the Bandai is failing .
 Styrene is not affected by white spirits or turpentine .

 BTW  , linseed oil is a drying oil and not a solvent / thinner .

Offline blakeh1

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #25 on: Sat Apr, 08, 2017, 10:37:AM »
Would you recommend linseed oil over turpenoid then? All I know is that others have recommended turpenoid over turpentine for Bandai plastics on the Starship Modeler forum.

Spike Lavender is a good non-toxic alternative to solvents like Turpentine/mineral spirits etc...

It is expensive though

Oderless Turpenoid is better than Turpentine, just don't be fooled it is safer toxicity wise with fumes etc.. As long as you keep good ventilation going it is the better option

Personally I am looking into going the water mixable oil route once I need to start buying new paint tubes

Offline Elm City Hobbies

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #26 on: Sun Apr, 09, 2017, 12:02:PM »
Its not the plastic, but the glue joints that are effected.

At least I know glue joints made with Tamiya cement will be effected.

Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #27 on: Sun Apr, 09, 2017, 12:08:PM »

   

   So  -- uh 
                           What  ?

   

Offline urumomo

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #28 on: Sun Apr, 09, 2017, 12:47:PM »

 .... been reading thru this   :     http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=262106

Offline Elm City Hobbies

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Re: Bandai Star Wars kits and solvents.
« Reply #29 on: Sun Apr, 09, 2017, 02:43:PM »
Maybe so, just saying that joints glued with tamiya cements will let go if using alot of enamel washes and such.

Was building a LAV 8 wheel vehicle and had the whole suspension come apart as I was putting wash on it. It was like the enamel wash dissolved the glue joint.

Another reason I stick to Vallejo these days.